tired of this... photon/morlen README

[tempus]

Photon's "Application" to Out of the Darkness LS

This was the direct reason I posted in this thread (read the damn post very carefully for a change). He apparently considered it a joke. I can see it as going either way. In any case, his pearl was broken tonight, and after explanations from both sides, he has apparently decided to join them for real? In any case, we (may?) have lost morlen over this as well.

Photon: I would have bitched your ass out for being such a moron. You're a good dude, but Ill tell you any anyone else this; apply to another HNMLS and we put up a kick poll for sackholders to vote on within a couple of days of your application. You may think we are paranoid, but go read the quitting etiquette, we have been USED too fucking much lately.

Morlen: If you have quit, I cant say Im suprised, but Id like to point out all the times you said you never would. I know friendship and loyalty, but after you cool down, think of what you would have thought in our place. It was a fucking piss poor joke.


Let me give you all a little background on WHY we are paranoid.

Judgejacobs and Fluffnstuff applied to another HNMLS several months back (this was before the aerya/etc split). I voted to kick immediately, others wanted to give them a chance. They ended up staying for a few months after, seemed to be mainly happy, etc. And then they of course quit after all the nastiness. During the time they had an 'active' application up on another linkshells forums, they were bidding quite heavily in sky. And Im an asshole who wants the best for my ls, I didnt let them win the bidding that week. Mind you, one was a tie bid (and the other ended up quitting too... /sigh). Oh, and before you think I was alone in that, I told other sackholders my intentions (including those who have left), and got agreement. If you are quitting, why should we let you win over someone who is loyal and staying? I cant understand that. This is yet another reason I no longer take bids, fuck me if I let a quitter win a bid, others are nicer and more "honest". I cant understand, but whatever.

Lets talk about Relik, he burned -all- of his points on his last sky god pop with us, won multiple items, and then posted that he was quitting to join particle. Or how about how we thought something was up (or some of us did, im more paranoid than the rest), and yet hoped it wasnt; and then bale quit right after he got his fucking osode.

Should we talk about all the people who quit without even letting us know? Dworeborn and Quezecotal recently joined up, and within 2 weeks had already applied elsewhere. Now I dont mind if people want to quit, but they never bothered to say goodbye. Go reread this again. Hell, read it a few more times.

admin said:

[EO] Membership Guidelines

• Members are not allowed to have a HNM LS other than Edea's Orphans/Edea's SeeDs.

[/b][/color][/li][/ul][/size][/quote]

If you apply elsewhere, after seeing so many who have quit us do, we will jump to the conclusion that you are serious, even when your application is worded like you were drunk and high. Why? Because we have idiots post applications halfassed here too, and the number of moronic applications I see when I skim other linkshell's forums is staggering. I swear a bunch of 10 year olds who lack any possible concept of english spelling are hitting 70+ Its astounding and makes me even more inclined for IQ tests and sterilization of morons.

But back on topic, we (or at least I) like you 2 idiots. So, if it truely was a joke, get your ego out of your ass and come back home....

-t

PS I do hope that no sackholders think to lock this, it's time for this shit to be said imo.

[shalyn]

1. I don't find it funny or tasteful
2. I don't know why Morlen would leave but I'm assuming it's because he's friends with Photon? But if you know what has happened in the past little while to this ls you'll understand why what Photon did was NOT funny.
BUT, I don't think he should have been dropped for it, just my personal opinion. Slap on the wrist, don't do it again, bla bla, we all go on with our lives.

I don't blame you for the way you handled bids. I don't even think that the people who you 'screwed' over blame you, they're just mad you figured it out. To be honest, I think your hopes for this linkshell are too idyllic.. and that's unfortunate.. for us. Because I want it to be the same. I want all the people to want the best for everyone, not just themselves.

Quez and Dwore left because they didn't like the point system. Little do they know, they're going to get screwed over more in any other ls.. and work with the same points. They're going to want abjurations, and they're going to not get them. They'll soon figure out that not all good equipment out there can be bought. All she wanted was money, all she asked about was payout, and that was the FIRST thing she knew about the ls, since I talked to her one afternoon and had to leave her to go get payout and ended up explaining it to her. Since THEN, I think she wanted to join EO, and that's why she had 'we wanted to join EO for a long time' in the application.

I bring this up because there are people in this LS with the same mindset. I can't STAND it. I see payout as a bonus, others see it as something they 'earned'. When I joined EO, I joined to help, I knew nothing of payout... I've been doing that very thing since level 66 in EO (many levels before that in my other ls'), when all I could do was refresh and cure during gods and demis and anything/everything else.

Few levels later, few more subs, few helpful merits to help my enfeebling magic along, and I'm still doing it. Those merits don't matter during exp, they only matter during demis, gods/Kirin, and some popped NMs we hit up. Most of those think I get just about nothing from, as you can see from my points. I don't need much, I don't believe that I'm entitled to anything, I am just glad to be useful to the ls and to getting things that others would like. I see precious few others with the same mindset, those who have it you know who you are, those who don't you don't give a shit.

There will always be selfish players, I won't be one of them. Sure I'll want some items, and I won't get them.. and I guess that's too bad. But you know what? At least I know I've played this game well. It's like survivor.. you know the snivelling ones that everyone hates and get away with everything anyway? Well.. nobody really likes them ever.. and if all I have to say at the end was that people genuinely liked me .. then that says a lot more than (putting into context) "I got full afv2 and dalmatica and only had to use several shells to get it"

BTW one mistake you make, Tempus, is trying to relate levels to ages. Just doesn't work like that. The most idiotic and childish people get to the big 75.. No way to weed them out except by the application.. Watch the grammar. The more effort they put into writing properly the more chance they'll put that kind of effort into most other things.

[ryujii]

A lot of people are displeased with the point system, the bank system, the 'bank selling'.

When I looked at the 'bank selling' section earlier I was more than a little shocked. I was intending to buy a damascene cloth, and from my understanding it seems it'd take 30 points (or something akin) and 150k just to get it.

I of course stared for a moment or two and then asked Gael what HIS LS sold their cloths for. 2 points.

There are ALWAYS better Linkshells out there. The grass is ALWAYS greener. (cept here. we're pleanty green. XD)

The best we can do is to do our best each day. I try to do just this. I admit to being one of the people who scream for payout. I dont think of it as an earned right, but as a complimentary gift. (I like my gifts prompt though. Especially when I'm broke (which I no longer am) Blm is a expensive job ya know!)

No one will get pissed at you for moving on. OR if you do, you should be ashamed. This is a free world, and if this isn't the shell for that person, then pitching a baby scene wont make them come back NOR will it attract new members.

There is a lot of broken favoritism in this shell, that ruffles the feathers of others which is left unsaid. PERSONALLY (this is just me.) I think that if we are NOT HNMLS (when was the last time we camped an HNM? Gods do not count.) then presently, other HNMLS pearls should be allowed to be worn, under the precedence that they do not

a.) interfere with OUR LS activities or plans
b.) do not interfere with the 90% gametime rule. (you can camp an hnm without wearing their shell the whole time. You just have to be partied with them after attendance is taken. A lot of HNM shells are not that picky (I'll use Gael's as an example.)

So far, even with the limited accesses I have, I've not seen plans for an HNM camp. No Serket, No Bloodtear Baldurf, no steelfleece balderich, No cerberus, no fafnir no behemoth!

We are not a hnm shell in those bases. We are a Sky/sea/dynamis shell. I dont mind this at all. But with these points in mind, I'd like to say that expecting some of the things that are expected of members seems a little unreasonable and unfair. some players ARE in it for the money, or the items or even the expeirence of killing an hnm.

This linkshell has become a stepping stone for a lot of reasons. We are strong enough for sea and sky, and dynamis...but we just dont have the manpower, the ToD, the seeming WILL to go after the big dogs anymore.

The other 'hnm' linkshells are 'laughing' at us! I dont want my opinion to be looked over, then kicked from the shell for impudence...but I think this needs to be pointed out.

I've talked to several previous members, and they all said these things. We aren't HNM right now (even if we are trying to be) so expecting other players to not wear HNM over us (even if it does not impede our own activities) seems not only overzealous but a bit cocky.

We still get things done, and we'd keep quite a few (if not ALL) members happy.

I cant Qualify for HNM shells right now. So, I'm not saying this because I have a personal want/need to be in one. But that is what we all know some (if not all) members are leaving for.

I think it might be time to re examine some rules, or take favoritisms away. There ARE people in this shell with other pearls to other hnm shells. We either need to fix the rules we have so that this is available to ALL members or none.

There is no excuse for blatant favoritism.

(sorry ryu...meant to quote this and accidentally modified...restored it to original text)

[shalyn]

Hmm.. what is this 'favoritism' that you're speaking of? I see the word a lot, but I don't see an example. Do you mean favoritism towards sky? I'm confused. I've also never seen anyone in EO wear another HNMls pearl. ??

We are looking into ground HNMs BUT we've brought a few ToDs up in the past, most of the members just do not have an interest in ground HNMs. Just because we don't do them doesn't take away our 'hnmls' status, sorry to burst your theory. Some HNMls' don't do sky.. does that make them less of one? They don't do Kirin.. are they not an hnmls? We kicked Kirin's ass several times. If that doesn't make us an HNMls, then I don't know what does.

Personally, I'd rather NOT stand around for hours on end just to lose claim to something. Personally, I like that this shell isn't all about money. Personally I like that D cloth is 30 points. You're taking away money from the rest of the LS and many people spent a lot of time getting the pop items (that I must mention I don't think you even helped to get) for us to fight the god for it to drop. 30 points isn't a lot if you show up to events.

I also don't care if another 'hnmls' is laughing, because we're the ones who have been around for 2 years, we're not the cocky ones, they are. I expect people to stick with us and help others get the items we helped them get in the first place. I expect people to put in what they get out. I don't think that's much to expect.

I've said this several times: If you want to do a GROUND HNM, get a ToD. That's it, that's all. I personally don't have the time to camp them myself, and don't really have the motivation to sit there for hours had I the time anyway.

The bank system is fine, if you think you'll make more money elsewhere, and that's what you're concerned about, leave. Unless you can come up with an appropriate and useful new strategy, complaining will do nothing. I don't see anyone else except 'certain' people complaining about the system. What's wrong with it?

Before I stop:
"I admit to being one of the people who scream for payout. "
NOT cool. You do know, and this is for everyone that 'screams for payout', that the sackholders are VOLUNTEERS. They don't get extra points or gil for their time, so how can you possibly demand that they do everything right away because that's what *you* want? If you want money right away, go farm. Go start skilling a craft and make your own money. Honestly.. That makes me so mad, I'd hate to be any kind of SH here, I /kneel to you all..

[ryujii]

I posed many examples of favoritism many times before to sackholders. It seems that the older the member, the more they get away with. As for the cloth.

I know I didn't help for it, and I'm not complaining about the price of it persay. For THIS ls, the price is fine (If I want cloth cheap, I can ask Gael.) The point I was trying to get across, that you obviously missed, is that other members in this shell (the majority of MY last post was based on my theories of other member feelings, and the feelings of those who've left, another thing you seem to have missed.) People do want money, or easy access to the money, or more reward for their work/bang for their buck.

The POINT of my last post was to point that out.

People leave, because of three reasons. (that I have seen personally)

reason 1. Disagreeance/inability to stand/get along with other members. (sad but true.)

Reason 2. Although the LS has payout, and point system the income is slow/not as fulfilling as OTHER linkshells doing the SAME things we do (sometimes as WELL as ground HNMs.) So, long story shory. They want the money/ the gear/ the WHATEVER. They want it, we aint got it, or if we do got it, they didn't GET it.

Reason 3. This one hits us a bit hard sometimes. Member disinterest. I could spring Serket's ToD on you ANY time I wanted. Hell, I could do it with ANY hnm. It's not hard for me to get that info. But the general consensus among members in reply will generally be 'busy' 'cant' 'dont feel like it' 'we cant take (insert HNM name here)!'

Short story? Generally MOST members (some members, such as Jon, Aly, Tib, and anyone else who jumps up to help fellow members, just for the sake of helping you all know who you are.) LACK the incentive.

I'm not just basing this on when I ask for help either. I'm basing this on GENERAL ls chat. I've seen a LOT of people ask for help on MANY different things. It's ALWAYS the same people who are 'busy' who 'cant' or 'dont feel like it' with just about anything.

I'm an oldie EO member (kinda.) and I remember days when the word "Help me _____" could pass any schmuck's lips and the whole Ls would JUMP up and be ready in a heartbeat! I remember days when we USED to camp Behemoth!

We got lazy. We lost members. We got a little more elite than we should have been, perhaps. I'm not sure precisely what happened while I was away. But while I was gone, this Ls changed greatly. It was on the right track

Hell it was more than on the right track! It was THERE. But somewhere down the line something happened. We lost Quality players. We lost the TRUE meaning of the EO family. We lost our incentive to help eachother.

AS for your points on sky. A LOT of linkshells do sky. That may qualify us as a HNM shell...but really now? a LOT of linkshells do it. Heck, I know some SOCIAL shells that do it. Does that make them HNM too? HNM (Hunt Notorious Monster) means exactly that.

God pops (while nice) are great and all, and we are instaclaimed for them...it's not the same as an HNM. We wont get the same kind of money, the same kind of kindred spirits, the same kind of quality playing that seperates us from the big dogs.

We USED to be HNM (I took part in Behemoth camps) but somewhere down the line our numbers dwindled and we stopped.

Yet again I propose for those out for money. (and yet again I point out that I am NOT out for money, I dont even QUALIFY for HNM shells min requirements. So no personal attacks on my character. This is merely my VIEW.)

Possibly let HNM shells for Ground HNMs be worn as long as they dont screw with our own ls activities and runs. It may even gain us new members.

Either that, or take out those of us who DO wear two shells. It's one thing to have a social shell you pop into for an hour or so. but there are certain members who are in HNM shells or in shells of similar persuasion to our own, Going HNM.

As far as MY view on HNM? I do NOT see Sea or Sky as HNM. I'm sorry it's not. We're not hunting a notorious monster. We are force popping a god. It may be just as hard, and it may be just as rewarding, but it's not the same.

(though I still look forward to killing gods someday -^_^- It sounds so damn cool...)

Once again, I may be pushing my bounds with these posts, but I think it does need said/mentioned/looked over.

If a sackholder takes offense, I will apologize, but these are MY thoughts and currently it's open for viewing.

[tarick]

1) nobody jumps up to help you anymore because you disregard any time that people put in to help you. unannounced afk's, taking an hour to get to a spot and then expecting the other person to be there, and a general feeling of entitlement. Not to mention the fact that you seem to tell bald-faced lies and think that you can pass it off with more lies.

Alchemy skill does not disappear. You lied on your original application, you lied to me a year ago. Whatever.

2) you sound like you're just waiting out the day until you meet requirements to join another HNMLS. Meanwhile you want help on multiple different things. We've had plenty of those people too. Quez and Dwo were mentioned. They were here a week, we got them through there ZM's, and then they were gone.

3) How the hell are you going to do EO's events -and- be in a ground HNMLS? It's not fair to either LS.

4) We camped behemoth once, a couple days in a row. You sat in the corner and were mostly afk. Woo! Good times! He popped purple right behind me. I don't feel like getting Mr. Argus.

5) HNM shell has become a generic term for a shell that does any end-game activity. I don't care what it's defined as. Everyone here knows what we do. If it is not what they want to do, they are free to propose changes or to find another LS. They should just drop our pearls before they apply.


Photon, if this truly was a joke, then it's my fault your pearl got broken. I was told that you had applied to an HNMLS. I didn't wait for an official vote in the forum. I took a vote of online sackholders and broke your pearl. If I had been aware it was of a joking nature I probably would have talked to you first. However, we have reached the boiling point on people who apply to other LS's.

[Gael]

Hi again, guys -- I was browsing, just to see what's up... happened across this thread, had a few thoughts I wanted to share. I hope nobody minds, and I'm not here to start fights or drama or anything, so please don't flip out on me.

shalyn said:

We are looking into ground HNMs BUT we've brought a few ToDs up in the past, most of the members just do not have an interest in ground HNMs. Just because we don't do them doesn't take away our 'hnmls' status, sorry to burst your theory. Some HNMls' don't do sky.. does that make them less of one? They don't do Kirin.. are they not an hnmls? We kicked Kirin's ass several times. If that doesn't make us an HNMls, then I don't know what does.

Sea/Sky/Dynamis make you a general Endgame linkshell. Not exactly HNMLS, but still in a worthwhile and important part of endgame. HNMLS means you specifically go after the HNMs; Fafnir/Nidhogg, Behemoth/KB, Adamantoise/Aspid, what-have-you and all that.
Like I said, being a general Endgame linkshell is just as good. You miss out on some abjurations for members going after cursed gear, BUT you guys don't have to deal with a lot of drama that accompanies camps; it's more trouble than it's worth sometimes.

Personally, I'd rather NOT stand around for hours on end just to lose claim to something. Personally, I like that this shell isn't all about money. Personally I like that D cloth is 30 points. You're taking away money from the rest of the LS and many people spent a lot of time getting the pop items (that I must mention I don't think you even helped to get) for us to fight the god for it to drop. 30 points isn't a lot if you show up to events.

Speaking from knowledge of my own linkshell, 30 points actually is quite a bit. You could probably come close to maybe 10-14 points in a week if you lived and breathed HNM camps/claims/kills and went to events. I don't know what the point values are like for you guys, so this isn't really a judgmental comment, just a "from my perspective" musing. ^^;
By the way, if you're trying to argue a point, making personal attacks at specific people in the process is never a good way to do it. If anything, that destroys your credibility and makes the rest of your argument seem shallow and baseless. Trust me, I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking, myself -- I got plenty of lectures in speech and communication seminars during debates about that very same thing. >.>;

I also don't care if another 'hnmls' is laughing, because we're the ones who have been around for 2 years, we're not the cocky ones, they are. I expect people to stick with us and help others get the items we helped them get in the first place. I expect people to put in what they get out. I don't think that's much to expect.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of two or three HNM shells that are, indeed, truly 'cocky' and arrogant. Most are generally good people.

I've said this several times: If you want to do a GROUND HNM, get a ToD. That's it, that's all.

Fair enough statement, and true enough -- however...

I personally don't have the time to camp them myself, and don't really have the motivation to sit there for hours had I the time anyway.

...This is a point I think needs to be brought up. If you're going to tell other people to get a ToD because they want to do a ground HNM, that's fine. Perfectly reasonable. What isn't reasonable, however, is the fact that people say they want to help and their main goal in the ls is to get people the things they want, and then turn around and more or less tell them to buzz off by saying things similar to what you said above. :\

Before I stop:
"I admit to being one of the people who scream for payout. "
NOT cool. You do know, and this is for everyone that 'screams for payout', that the sackholders are VOLUNTEERS. They don't get extra points or gil for their time, so how can you possibly demand that they do everything right away because that's what *you* want? If you want money right away, go farm. Go start skilling a craft and make your own money. Honestly.. That makes me so mad, I'd hate to be any kind of SH here, I /kneel to you all..

Again, leave the personal attacks out of the argument. Some people may not have the luxury of money in this game. Some may have quite a lot of trouble getting it, no matter what they try. I'm currently trying to make money off my alchemy, but it isn't going very well because HQ rates for 90+ synths suck unless you're 100+3. I've also tried camping several NMs in my own time over the past few months, to no avail. Maybe I would be low enough in the bank that I would need that little bit of money to get around.
Crafts are not cheap to skill. Telling someone to blow their gil on materials, breaks, and low-price NQ sellbacks won't help matters any. Yes, I'm all for working for the money I earn -- I think everyone should. But if you only have about 300-400k, you won't make a lot of progress on a craft, and certainly not enough to make a profit.

Lastly, to address Ryu's comments about my ls:
Since some people may be thinking it, I'll get this little bit nipped in the bud -- I don't sit around with Ryu and compare my ls to EO.

In all honesty, I very rarely compare my ls to any other on the server, except for maybe another HNM shell I saw at a camp earlier. As an example, the comment about the Damascene Cloth going for so few points was an answer to a direct question about the last time we auctioned one. It went to me, and yes, I sold it -- I needed to make back my crafting costs on my Alchemy synths at 96, as well as fund new gear for my Ninja and Thief. If it makes me greedy for selling it, then fine, call me greedy, but do remember that I worked for it.

Whew -- looong post. Sorry again if I seem long-winded, and I apologize if I came off as controntational. I just had some thoughts I wanted to get out, and I tried to do it as sensibly as I could. It is 6 AM, after all... I haven't slept yet, so my brain might not be making the proper correlation between intent and the verbiage associated. After all, I did just use 'verbiage' in a sentence. I never do that. >.>; I really must be tired.
Aaaanywho! Sorry again for the intrusion and the horrendously-long post, just wanted to share my thoughts on the discussion. ^^;

[tempus]

Shalyn and Ryujii, you both missed the main point of my rant. What you focused on was the examples I gave for -why- we are paranoid. I could have just said we dont like people applying elsewhere and left it, but I wanted people to see a little of the reason why.

Ryujii, if people arent happy with our system, there are other ls they may be happy in. We realized that not 1 ls is perfect for everyone. We only ask that they politely tell us they are leaving before they go, and that they not use us. Period, thats it.

Gael, only an fyi, our point system has much different values. IIRC your ls uses partial points for some things, like .2 or .5 or w/e? If Im wrong, sorry, I just woke up. =) Anyways, we only use full points, so that tends to "inflate" the values of things if you compare to other ls.

Back on the original subject, I do hope that photon and morlen read this. I dont want any more friends gone, even over some lame joke.

-t

[Nauren]

If you read the updated posts on Photon's thread....I told him that if it was a joke...he is going to make EO look like a fool to the public. He said no way....nobody will think that because everyone knows its a joke. Now look at the most recent posts. They are yelling at him for being an idiot about it. Just like I said they would.

[corran]

+1 Nauren

Also, look at the number of points you get in sky in one day in this ls, sometimes it's 24-30. So, I don't know, a noble's tunic is about 160 points or something (too lazy to calculate it), well, my RDM AF2 hat will cost me well into 200 points. Seems fair to me that a Noble's Tunic or Shining Cloth would not be substantially less than that. Every ls have different amounts for points you can earn as well as spend. I've seen 1 point for getting an autumnstone, iirc autumnstone is 3 points on sky days and 6 points on pickup parties for us. That's a lot of points! That's why things cost more points, the points are easier to obtain. Also, I'd rather spend 3 hours making guaranteed money and either not have some HNM items or buy them at some other time, rather than camping crap to come up empty-handed. Anyways, that's not the point of this thread, as you've pointed out.

Aye, indeed, if you click on the link in Tempus's post... Photon's friends in OoTD didn't view it as a joke, the leaders of that LS didn't view it as a joke, and the administration of this LS didn't view it as a joke. There were 2 ways to look at it: either Photon was disrespecting another LS or he was legitimately applying to another 'endgame ls'. The tactic was to break and I think that any other respectable ls would have done the same.

Look folks, we can't share ToDs in LS or camp chary or camp anything else in Vanadiel if a shellhopper pops on and figures out what we're doing then jumps on to another LS and gives away the work we did. Personally I'm not interested in helping you progress in missions and gods and anything else to just hop up and leave one day.

So, Photon, go do dynamis with your other LS like you were (since you weren't doing it with us). You may be able to rail Codeine for not being in the LS as long as you, but he's waaaaaaaaay ahead of you in participation and experience. You can't beat me in time spent in EO, so feel free to take a stab at me if you want - he was doing something that was decided by the majority of sackholders. I'll back up Codeine and Tarick who participate WAY before I'll back somebody doing dyanmis with another LS.

[Nauren]

I'd also like to add that someone who playse such a childish joke is not above playing games in their current LS. The reason your shell is broke first is to prevent you from unequipping it then dropping in to play games. I've seen too many people log into a Linkshell just to say fuck you then hurry up and unequip it. We don't take chances. You played a childish game then got upset when you were called out for it. If you don't like the policies then so be it, but we have about 60 other members that thoroughly enjoy our LS.

[lockejv]

That application, regardless of intent, is clearly disrespectful to EO. If Photon was interested in EO's well-being and committed to the LS long term, I don't see him making that post.

Ryujii - major props to you for sharing your concerns, +1. +100 if I could. Too often people beg for feedback, and when they finally get some, they lash out at the messenger. A negative response doesn't encourage other people who read the thread to leave their feedback, or share their concerns.

While I disagree with some of what you said (favoritism?), and think some of your concerns are simply due to lack of understanding certain situations (people wearing other HNMLS pearls), I think your post provides an opportunity for the SH's to address and clarify some of these concerns that you and other members have.

As far as ground HNMs go, you're in the wrong LS if you want to camp Kings (Faff/Nid/KB/Aspid/etc). SH's may disagree with me, but too many of EO's members have lives outside the game to sit around botting in Dragonaery / BehemothDom for 40 hours a week.

Look at EO's schedule. That's what EO does. EO is an "End-Game" LS, not HNM. An HNMLS camps Kings. People join HNMLS to camp Kings. Maybe this should be clarified.

[nedicinevi]

This is my fault. I sawthe post earlier in the day, but at the time did not pick up on that it might be a joke. When I got home, I let someone in-game know that "so-and-so applied to someLS" (again, without knowing or mentioning that it was a joke) and then, well, we know the rest.

Photon and Morlen, I'm sorry.

[Bridger - Retired Paladin]

I've talked to several previous members, and they all said these things. We aren't HNM right now (even if we are trying to be) so expecting other players to not wear HNM over us (even if it does not impede our own activities) seems not only overzealous but a bit cocky.

We are an HNM in the sense that we fight monsters such as Kirin. Now the Symantics of "does hunting Demi's to pop gods to pop kirin make us an HNM or not" I don't concern myself with. There's a lot of good stuff to be found in Sky/Dynamis/Sea. Stuff which we cannot obtain without an entire Endgame/HNM LS.

I don't mean to dive into the past with drama, but Ryujii, you seem to have forgotten false accusations of embezzlement, some of the members that left didn't treat Markus and Tempus very well. It happens in other LS too.

Plenty of people have left and made sure they got payout while they leave with the equipment EO bought them. If you really have a problem and it's necessary to leave, the honorable people say "FU here's your stuff back you suck", as opposed to the "FU I'm keeping your stuff because you suck".

There were people which left because the rules of EO changed. Such as

1) Event Attendance Became Manditory if Online
2) There was a rule put out, be on CoP Chapter 2.

I have respect for these people, things changed, they didn't agree with it so they left. They didn't make false accusations, they didn't whisper and try to get 20 ppl to quit at the same time, they didn't make a huge drama post, they respectibly left.

We still get things done, and we'd keep quite a few (if not ALL) members happy.

Having been in another HNM-LS, or Sky/Dynamis, whatever you want to call it LS, I am telling you that you can't keep everyone happy.

The other 'hnm' linkshells are 'laughing' at us!

Who cares? We laugh at other shells sometimes.

I'm basing this on GENERAL ls chat. I've seen a LOT of people ask for help on MANY different things. It's ALWAYS the same people who are 'busy' who 'cant' or 'dont feel like it' with just about anything.

I have seen many people ask for help on many different things too over LS chat. Lately, IMO, its seems to be kind of insane. Some of the requests are to the point where they are unfair/absuse of other people's willingness to help. A blm, (don't care/remember who) wanted a bunch of people to go kill mobs so he didn't have to pay 300k for a spell, the spell has a low drop rate. Really, if a person makes 100k/hr (which many of us can do) and you get 6 people to go farm this for 1 hour, that's 600k of gil not made, because he didn't want to do it himself.

Now if he was hard core serious, and could not obtain this by himself, and had made a post requesting help on the website, I may have felt differently. I don't ask for help with items I can easily buy through the AH, and I wonder what's up when people ask for this amount when if they had just attended events, they would have had gil for this type of item through bank payout. I am not here to help you penny pinch. I am here to go up and Provoke big bad mobs you cannot possibly take out yourself.

There are such things as abuse/unfair requests for help.

I have seen some people hop on and send me /tells asking me to drop what I'm doing to go help them on a Promy. So they just asked me to quit what I'm doing, and dedicated 3-5 hours of my time to help them. I'm not always on for 3-5 hour periods. They sent me no PM, made no post on the website, just logged on and felt like doing it at that given time. To which my response is "I'm sorry, I'm busy, if you want to set a specific date/time to do it, I'm up for it, but I NEED notice." I'm know that's not 100% selfless, but when I need help I notify people, and expect the same kind of treatment. This person has since not posted any specific plan and seems to expect the LS to plan the event for him/her. I'm willing to help, but I'm not gonna hold someone's hand, build a party from scratch for this person. They are going to have to be the one to plan/build the party, if they need imput, have questions, I'm all about it, and will assist. Then when we get there, you'll see me loose EXP on my Nin or War so we can get the hell through the Promy as safely as possible.

So in short Ryujii(and I say this with no ill will), I do not agree.

By the way, I'll be honest, I favoritize. When I see a long term member, who has done a ton for the LS ask for help, I jump at the opportunity if possible. If Tempus, Markus, Jonathan, or Damfool, asks for help I do drop what I'm doing w/o hesitation, I reserve that for a select few people who've earned it. If I see someone ask for help who's name I don't recognize, and doesn't have any points since they haven't been to events, I'm not as eager.

Edit: After thinking about it, maybe I could have said it like this:

Do not abuse the kindess of others and call upon their help for tasks you could easily accomplish yourself. Also, do not claim no one is willing to help if you aren't going to approach a big task by trying to schedule it so that people can prepare to adequately help you accomplish your task.

[Nauren]

Nedi..its not your fault. others found it on their own. Even as a joke, its not acceptable. Even OOTD agrees that it was disrespectful.