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Post by tarick on Jun 7, 2006 0:20:07 GMT -5
This is not something all that new. In fact, I remember reading something a few years back that came up, that there was already a law that would allow the draft to be reinstated in times of emergency. It would go by certain age ranges. Like 21-23, then 23-25, then 18-21. Something like that. I don't recall specifics, and I can't 100% say this was actually in place or just more political posturing like this bill.
The draft isn't going to be reinstated. To jump from a single item introduced by one representative to that part of the bill getting enacted is quite a leap at this point, and if this were something serious, I'm sure it'd be shouted from the rooftops on the major networks.
In a lot of countries, there is mandatory participation in the military. We had many exchange students live at my house while I was growing up, and the people that I recall that had to serve did not seem to resent it at all. It was just expected, kind of like high school over here. (my impression from how they talked, not their exact words)
The ones I recall most specifically were from Finland. If I remember right, they had to serve 2 years by a certain age. One of the Finlanders went to college here, went back to serve in the military, then came back to the US.
Also, do you think Canadians, French, Arabs, JP, any country that you feel is so much better than America doesn't have it's share of stupid people? Do you think that either side of the argument doesn't have its share of stupid people? The majority of Americans are uninformed or ill-informed. I don't think I'm informed about the issues as much as I should be to debate them on an individual basis.
It doesn't matter where you get your news from, it's going to be slanted one way or another these days. I liked fox news when it first gained popularity (yes, I'm conservative). At that time, it was more toward the center, and I think it was at least closer to fair and balanced than the major networks. Now, as the bush administration has fucked up so much, the republican side has had to become more slanted to defend him, and fox news has done the same. Meanwhile, the major networks have become no less left-wing, leaving a huge void in the center. If there's ever been a time in the last 100 years for a 3rd party, it's now.
Anyway, the only reason I posted something is to talk about the america bashing. I hate arguing politics, because 99.999% people, including myself, are dead set in their opinions and it is ALL opinion. But seriously, do you think another country is any better? What's so great about Canada? Universal Health Care? Under Canada's policies, my nephew would've been dead instead of celebrating his 3rd birthday. (yes, I'm going off heresay somewhat, from canadian friends who I've talked to regarding the health system.). (see, the point of the full disclosure is to admit that I don't know everything and may not be right about everything) The UN? Hell, 2 of the 5 main entities were taking bribes from the other side when we were trying to get their endorsement for the war, iirc. Politicians who obtain that high of power in any country, have already compromised themselves.
Anyway, that's my rant. Sorry.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Jun 7, 2006 0:52:10 GMT -5
I jump at the draft because of some really bad military experiences in foreign countries, still kinda a touchy issue, maybe I allow the idea of being forced back in strike to much of a nerve. Recruiters call my house telling me "oh you must do this do that, would you like to reenlist by the way?" "there is no way in hell, I could care less about the $20,000 bonus you just offered me, FoD"
I wonder if some people talking about going to another country were just joking. The Canadians I know don't think very highly of their health care, I've known several who have come to the U.S. to get whatever done. A lot of Americans also don't acknowledge that Canadians pay more in taxes than Americans do.
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Post by Conina on Jun 7, 2006 3:01:36 GMT -5
I have watched the "goings on" in this country and abroad for the past 5 years very closely. The american people have been lied to so many times it isnt funny and until the last few months no one cared it seemed, no one batted an eye. If talk of the war came up at work, it was like talking about football or a new movie. It is too deep a subject to delve into here i guess, but suffice it to say that the country i was born and raised in is not the same country my kids are growing up in. I dont wear rosey colored glasses. I wasnt lulled to sleep with the spin and propaganda that we've been bombarded with since 911. I have seen our rights quietly get pushed aside in the interest of the "public good" and i've watched Americans stand by and let it happen. Backbone as a society? I dont think so. I feel for our troops and think that what they are going through is a horendous tragedy. We talk of WMD and yet use depleted uranium in our heavy munitions. One day history will reflect that WW3 started in oct of 2001 as we retaliated against the poorest country in the world on trumped up evidence ( by that i mean the official story of 911 is so thin, it doesnt take much research to see there is a whole other story that we will never hear). I'm a military brat and i was in the military as well, I love our troops. Its heartbreaking to think about this stuff at 3 am lol. sorry long night at work.
One thing i'd like to add: i dont think a draft will pass either. I think its just a diversion like most of the crap on the news or net. I dont think moving to another country is an answer to anything. I do think, however, that the United States will be its own undoing.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Jun 7, 2006 10:38:57 GMT -5
We talk of WMD and yet use depleted uranium in our heavy munitions. I don't understand this comment. Depleted Uranium is not a WMD. Munitions are not WMD. It's 1/2 life is also >100,000 years, so it's not very radioactive. From what I understand of DU, it cannot be used to make a nuclear weapon (if I am wrong on that, please correct me, and if you have a link which clearly explains otherwise please post it) The reason for using DU (U-235) is because its density is 19050 kg/m3, much more dense than lead which is 11340 kg/m3. Superman would be unlikely to see through DU since he can't even see through lead. |
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Post by Jonathan on Jun 7, 2006 11:55:53 GMT -5
[Superman would be unlikely to see through DU since he can't even see through lead. lol |
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Post by Sosa on Jun 7, 2006 19:14:43 GMT -5
I apologize if I offended everyone with my post. It is not my intent to "America bash." I'll be frank. I love this country... but I can live without our dear shopping malls and all-you-can-eat buffets. I did it just fine for 21 years. Having grown up overseas, an American who never had a permanant home in the United States for most of my life, I acknowledge that my views are a lot wider in scope than that of most other Americans. I suppose what I have found so frustrating upon my return stateside is that the number of people who are incredibly closed-minded FAR outweigh those that have the presence to look beyond what's regurgitated in the media to the real issues we face today. I am enamored with the concept of freedom that we are endowed with - and absolutely apalled at how we willingly let it be stripped away from us, one mandate at a time. Times change, and so do peoples' values... but for an American that hasn't had the opportunity to live in the same place, grow up with childhood friends and experience most of what the US has to offer yet - I often feel like I'm one of the very few that actually cares about our loss of the CORE American values that everyone shares, regardless of religious or political beliefs... freedom of speech, shelter from fear of oppression, and the humble acknowledgement that we are not always right, and we are not the only country in the world.
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Post by Conina on Jun 10, 2006 9:33:59 GMT -5
Depleted uranium eminates radiation. We've used it in our munitions since the first gulf war. We packed our bunker busting bombs full of it and dropped them in afgan. to blow up hide outs that were in the mountains which also poisoned afgan.'s water supply. There are reports of high numbers of birth defects in children born in iraq since the 1st gulf war. High number of children with birth defects are being reported in Afgan. now. What do u think the gulf war syndrome is? a virus our troops got in the desert? Something they got from inhaling smoke from burning oil rigs? All studies of the gulf war syndrome points to exposure to radiation. Troops come home with a wide array of strange symptoms and in the most severe cases their families also get sick. So to answer your question Bridger, Depleted Uranium is a weapon of mass distruction. It has all the same trappings as a chemical or biological agent.
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Post by Conina on Jun 10, 2006 9:39:53 GMT -5
I apologize if I offended everyone with my post. It is not my intent to "America bash." I'll be frank. I love this country... but I can live without our dear shopping malls and all-you-can-eat buffets. I did it just fine for 21 years. Having grown up overseas, an American who never had a permanant home in the United States for most of my life, I acknowledge that my views are a lot wider in scope than that of most other Americans. I suppose what I have found so frustrating upon my return stateside is that the number of people who are incredibly closed-minded FAR outweigh those that have the presence to look beyond what's regurgitated in the media to the real issues we face today. I am enamored with the concept of freedom that we are endowed with - and absolutely apalled at how we willingly let it be stripped away from us, one mandate at a time. Times change, and so do peoples' values... but for an American that hasn't had the opportunity to live in the same place, grow up with childhood friends and experience most of what the US has to offer yet - I often feel like I'm one of the very few that actually cares about our loss of the CORE American values that everyone shares, regardless of religious or political beliefs... freedom of speech, shelter from fear of oppression, and the humble acknowledgement that we are not always right, and we are not the only country in the world. I hear ya.... |
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Jun 10, 2006 10:47:46 GMT -5
First of all, there was a lot of WMD stuff over in Iraq. Sadam lauched either chemical agents against some of his own people in the late 1980's. That couldn't have been good for the newborn population. Soldiers in Iraq also took some screwed up meds to protect themselves from these weapons. The families of many of these soldiers sued the Army in accordance with the Federal Torts Claims Act. ( A soldier cannot sue the Army for loss of health, injury etc, but his family can). Depleted uranium eminates radiation. Yes, many things emit radiation. If it has a half life, such as the half life I mentioned above, it is known how much radiation it emits. Millions of Americans have radioactive sources in multiple places in their homes. If you have an older smoke alarm, it contains Americium 241, Americium 241 has a half life of 432 years. www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs156.htmlAt point blank a geiger counter can pick up Americium 241. At 3 feet, it no longer measures anything higher than background radiation. I did this as a first hand experiment. The amount of Americium in a smoke detector is typically a micro-Curie source. A Curie is a measurement of how radiactive a source is, 1 Curie = 3.7*10^10 decays/second. Americium is a Radiactive Source we use everyday, and it's not a WMD. A good way to convince someone that DU munitions are hazardous, is to say "person x in this paper took a geiger counter measurement of a munition and he got x reading". You have now gotten my attention, and possibly gotten me to agree with you, because you have presented a fact. As a person who didn't do first hand research on the chemical agents Sadam used, didn't do chemical analysis on the drugs the soldiers took, and hasn't first hand taken radiactivity measurements of the DU munitions, I don't have the first frickin clue what caused Gulf War Syndrome. All studies of the gulf war syndrome points to exposure to radiation. Ok, you have my attention, which studies? Also, are there any first hand radiactive measurements of DU munitions taken of DU that you know of? Edit:Dr. Khajak Vartaanian, a radiation expert, holds a Geiger counter next to a hole in an Iraqi tank destroyed by depleted uranium weapons in the Persian Gulf War in 1991. The shell holes show 1,000 times the normal background radiation level. seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/95178_du12.shtmlGoogled "Depleted Uranium Geiger Counter" and found that. Ok, I now understand your original point. 1000x background isn't a lot, but I wouldn't want my kids running around it, nor my pregnat wife. 2nd Edit: Did some more looking around, U-238 (not U-235) is used in DU, it's half life is 4.47*10^9 years. I can't figure out why a material with such a huge half-life would case such a problem. Materials with incredibly huge half-lives are all over the place. |
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Post by Conina on Jun 10, 2006 12:51:10 GMT -5
I've just read these things on the internet over the years. Most sites i surf are reputable but not to main stream media. I dont intend for anyone to take my word for a thing, just to research it for yourself. That is what I did. I wouldnt trust a government study on anything of that nature. I am not gonna attach links to prove what i say, i'm not trying to convince anyone. These are my own opinions that i have formulated with the information i have found. I posted this site and love to see all the different opinions of rl serious issues. Keep em comin!
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Post by Conina on Jun 11, 2006 9:12:16 GMT -5
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