The Ethics of Playing Video Games.....

[Kaifu1]

Guess I'm not an averge gamer then.

As for the Ethics behind it (or in front if you perfer), without trying to sound like an asshole~ I dislike people who use "loop holes" in games. It breaks the game and ruins the fun of it for me. If you do it, and ruin the game for yourself, I could give to shits less what you do. But, as soon as it effects me, or anybody else at the same time, oh oh oh, its on like Donkey Kong. (Save me Mario!)

This goes beyond FFXI, Halo 2 had some exploits in it, you could "Super Jump" (Not as good as a DRG's SJ, but still good) up ontop of a roof in one of the lvls, and it was near impossible to kill somebody up there unless you knew how to get up their youself. So, anybody who got up there with a sniper rifle had free rain over everbody without a means to attack back.

So, Glitching/Looping a game is teh sukorz

[Sosa]

I consider a Game Guides aka walkthrough cheating to an point. Not including FFXI, mostly because it takes so much time and energy to get to a point. Going in ill perphered is a death wish. Think of it as warning... But, for a Console game, no way. In fact, I bought Kingdom Hearts 2 collector's ED Player's guide. Its still wraped up, and will remain that way intill I beat the game on my own. Once I pick up the challenge to beat it on hard/Pride mode, then I'll need the little boost of help it will provide. I won't use it as a cruch.

I'm the same way, mostly... I don't really consider them cheating, because people play the same game for different reasons... but one of the factors I enjoy most is the challenge in a game, and generally, unless I encounter something completely show-stopping (like that $@*! point in Final Fantasy Tactics where you have to restart your game file if you haven't taught Ramza auto-potion, because after 12 consecutive tries with an otherwise overpowered main character he still died in three turns on the boss fight) I try to resolve it on my own first.

For others, they're most interested in getting through the game as quickly as possible, either because they want to hurry and see what lies ahead in the story, or simply because they don't have the time to replay the same part of a game 20 times to figure it out on their own. Different strokes for differeny folks, I suppose.

[shalyn]

Personally I was thinking of 2-5 when I disagree'd with 'cheating'. I remember going to help, getting all my gear together to kite, buying medicines, making macros, and generally putting effort into it to help. When I got there we didn't even *try* it first. You went right for the glitch. Logging out during Kirin is using what you already have. Switching members is strategy that, again, you are meant to use. People logging for hate won't change anything except a few less deaths. It won't make or break a Kirin run. Using a CS property to take advantage of a hate glitch does make or break a run. That is the difference. I don't look down on you for doing it. I understand, CoP can be VERY frustrating. But I wish you'd have given it a chance first.

Personally my problem is that too many people ALWAYS take the easy way through things, hence we have such horrible players. What did that rdm do? Nothing. Even when she came out of the CS she stood there buffing herself instead of fighting or curing. I look at these runs as helping you be a better player. Now these people will be put in parties with generally good players and possibly ruin the run because of incompetence. People need to work at improving themselves, it doesn't just come with a finished chapter or more exp.

Guess what I'm saying is once in a while it's fine. The game cheats, we all know this. It's just like bringing in an exp scroll during your Maat fight. It's picking and choosing how when and when not to that is defining. Choose wisely, young padawan..

[jerric]

I know hes not quite as badass as he used to be but i used tos ee ppl fighting Roc at GC zone, and teh monks zoning their hate after ws.

[Bridger - Retired Paladin]

Shalyn you weren't there that day where CaptainChaos, Saadia, and I tried it 4-5x. That was the 3-4 run for each of us and we just said the hell with it. We'd always get the kiter who died in 2 seconds, or the ranger who woul heal the mammets 40% or more.

I kited the mammets, tanked the mammets, and acted as a healer for the mammets, but I can't play 6 jobs, I can only play one, and I got tired of repeatedly paying for people that didn't know what they were doing. Run # 4, Fight # 16, I decided to move on and cheat. We worked so hard with the RDM kiter who died in 2 seconds, and nothing.

Now I'm at Oryu, 0/2, first time got him down to 48% and Mnk refuses to 2hr when we are all alive, slowly we all die, Oryu was grounded 99% of the time. 2nd run, Pld Drk Blm Blm Smn Smn. Smn screws up two astral flows, I don't know how he did that, but we lost that fight as well with Oryu at 31%. During that fight Pld was the first one to die. I can only do 1 job so well, I am completely at the mercy of other people on CoP to do theirs well.

[_Code]

Bridger its not impossible.

Yes there's luck involved, but there's skill too. If you lost 4 or 5 times maybe you had members that weren't of the ability to be able to win that BC.

Sea is Earned, its not given, just because you bought the Xpack doesn't mean you can go to sea, members have to work together, and build a party that can win, or they wont advance.

I just think cheating on these early CoP missions will just give everyone involved a Harsh awakening at further missions.

as far as being at other players abilities mercy. Get a static. Every time I go out and XP (which has rarely been all EO lately), i'm at the mercy of other people on how much xp i'll gain. Its just the sad truth of a game that requires so much group effort. Doesnt make cheating right

[shalyn]

Sounds like you don't like being the RDM of the party, Bridger *lol*

Like I said, I understand. But we could have tried it once while there. It would have given everyone a bigger sense of accomplishment and maybe taught something. If you're trying it 4-5x in one day, SOMETHING is being done terribly wrong. I know you're at the mercy of other people, and now others will be at the mercy of the incompetent people who go through that way. Hell, I died when I did it the first time because /nin is just not good for me (stats-wise, landed nothing), I reraised, helped kite again, we all lived.

I agree with Code, get a static. I know there are quite a few people in ls on Ouryu atm. Ask friends to help, etc. It takes a massive amount of 'working together' skills, but once you find the right team, you'll enjoy your experience that much more

[Bridger - Retired Paladin]

I think these missions are fairly easy, however also a real pain, there isn't much to them, they are just long and time consuming. I don't look back on beating Diablos as a real victory. Oryu is not big deal, ppl just have to use 2hrs properly. 2-5 requires good kiters and ppl not to heal the mobs.

6-4 will be hell.

Must have been nice to have a static that was skilled which showed up, all of us do not have that. I'm on my 2nd static right now, hope it lasts, and I hope 1 SMN learns not to panic while he's doing Astral Flow when nothing is attacking him.

Team work is critical, however as I've seen you say "not everyone has a brain, it's only a theory", and if I've found a glitch to move on after 4-5 attempts of seeing someone doing something really stupid, well I'm gonna use the glitch. Even if a GM says the 2-5 glitch is ok, I still think it's low and that it's cheating never the less, however glitches will never be my 1st option.

[Sosa]

They're time consuming, and they REQUIRE *EVERYONE* to be both adequately prepared and compitent, two crucial factors which the majority of players lack.

[_Code]

sosa said:

they REQUIRE *EVERYONE* to be both adequately prepared and compitent

[/u][/quote]


*competent


Sosa synthesized an Irony +1!

[Sosa]

The only time inadequate spelling skills have killed me was when I logged back into GC with a level 31 Paladin and no macros, after having just disconnected. Naturally, I spawned in front of a beetle and I mistyped '/ja "Invincible" <me>' Yeah, in hindsight, I probably should have just used the ability from the menu, but I typically type faster than I can pull something out of the menu... so...