Xaero
Soldier
Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb!
Posts: 2,737
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Post by Xaero on Sept 26, 2006 19:50:34 GMT -5
Well, I have to say MAYBE i shouldnt even post this. As it really just adds fuel to the fire, and Markus would prolly kill me for it. So I am gonna appoligize right now for what I am gonna say. Sorry Markus, and sorry to the rest of EO. I know we just want to push it behind us, and work towards moving forwards. However I personally feel that things need to be said, and pointed out. I wish to appoligize to Zanne, Cyn, and Oldman for this aswell, but fuck you aswell for pushing things this far. The following is all stuff that I know to be true, and maybe some of it was jus stuff that i suspected. I will do my best to point out the suspect parts ahead of time.
1) Zanne, Cyn, and Old all joined up in EO like 6 months ago about maybe more maybe less.
2) I, and many others at first thought they would all work out fairly well. They were good folks. IE really nice an what not.
3) After some number of events we got some complaints over Zanne's whm ability. Including people who flat out stated that they would not attend events that she was at, or stated that they did not wish to be in the same pt/alliance with her(I can personally attest to the not being in same pt as I know I was one of the many who also stated this).
4) Zanne and Cyn basically came to every single event(So if your lookin for people to fill in slots there you go. Btw Cyn is a really good sam for any of you who are looking) Oldman came to as many events as his schedual would allow, which was mostly all the sky stuff, but missed dynamis.(I personally can not vouch or condem his skill as a pld, as we didnt really get to work together)
4.5) Zanne finally after 6 months of incompitent play gets the boot from the LS(keep in mind we had asked several Whm's to give her tips to help get her game up, hell even some rdm's an others offered some advice to only be turned down by the *sarcastic remark coming* bestest whm on titan! Now this is where I am gonna say I was a bit ticked off Markus handed over a considerable amount of gil to her. Personally Im not sure exactly why, however if I had to make a guess it was to smooth things out. So that maybe Oldman and Cynric wouldnt quit.( This is just me guessing on the reasoning) Keep in mind we had been discussing booting her for atleast 5 months now, buuuuuut well its tough to boot people you like even if they dont play well. Thats the only thing you can really say on this matter)
5) As stated in the other post all points that are on a positive balance at the end of the month earn their share(So none of them had any cash stolen from them)
6) Cyn publically(IE /ls chat to all) stated that the SH's were sacks of dung. Even after this display(yes this is a FACT an even stating it is likely to get me a stern talking to from Markus) Markus still stated too all the other SH's that if Cyn's bid won, and if Kirin dropped an osode at the next pop session. That Cynric come or go had earned it an it would be his! While the sad fact is we did loose that Kirin(I know Im sorry for bringing that up again aswell). So there is no way to prove this to be true.
7) Oldman's original post that he deleted an was brought back so poeple can read it mentioned Zanne, and at that time Markus in /ls was tellin others about the bullshit of it. Thats when Cyn hops in from Seeds(Which is our shell we use when we switch to do sky/limbus/dynamis an whatnot) spots Markus's one comment about the shit that Oldman had said in his post. Then proceeds to jump down Markus's throat for bashing his wife again which was total bullshit.
8) At some point in time during this Cyn sends a /t Markus about someone breaking his pearl(honestly i dont belive any of the sacks broke the pearl nor did Markus break it. Especially as if we were gonna break it we woulda done the seeds pearl b4 the EO pearl--- that there is just guessing that no sackholder did this, however i firmly belive it to be true aswell). Back to fact after Cyn /t to markus, and then Markus says to the LS what the fuck, who broke cynrics pearl?! when I and, then some of the SH's checked the list his name was still on it even after all that time had passed. I even proceeded to type in /sea all linkshell 3 more times befor his name actually went off of the list.(Yes i do understand lag and all, but still if you look at the whole list events from when stated that his pearl was broke to when he actually disapeared off the list almost 1-2 mins had passed by. Thats jus fuckin fishy IMO.
8) I know this number 8's jus a lil childesh of me to say it, but I'm going to anyhow as if im in trouble for the rest I might aswell say it all. Today while walking past Cynric in southern sandy he had a nice little emote that went a lilt something like /em something someting something <t> puts a bad over his pearl in shame or some bullshit at me. I mean the dude actually made a fuckin macro jus to put stuff out an Members he walks past. Now all i do is slightly chastize him for acting like a child an proceed to delete 2 peeps off of my blist to make room for him an his wife zanne. Later i note that Zanne has made a /search comment stating that like dont join EO cuz 3 SH's are thieves or some bullshit.
9) I dont think ive left anything out. However Ill leave 9 open incase others wish to comment, and now Im gonna get prepared to face the music over this post(good or bad)
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Post by tempus on Sept 26, 2006 21:04:57 GMT -5
/wave KI trolls.
-t
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Post by shalyn on Sept 26, 2006 21:05:41 GMT -5
Well it wasn't just the lack of skill that got her booted, it was her overall developing attitude. Hers, along with both Cyn and Oldman were becoming ridiculous. They were self-outcasters, making it seem like everyone in the shell was all bestest buds and they were the outsiders, and as such started assuming there was a lot of conspiracies going on that there weren't. I've been saying this for a long while.
Personally I got sick of all of the attitude. Cynric constantly talked shit about the linkshell and complained non-stop. Zannefair also did this, as did Oldman. If they didn't get their way, a conspiracy was blamed. 'You don't want anyone to have relic!' 'You don't care about your PLDs!' 'You're trying to break us up as friends!' It's all been seen, and it was a constant annoyance for me. Every time something went wrong, and only when his wife wasn't involved, he would complain and then put down the entire linkshell. Personally, I've been wanting them all to either STFU or leave for a long time. I have SS's as well of Oldman telling me that we're all against them, which came out of nowhere. The only conspiracy ever going on was trying to figure out how to nicely get Zann out of the shell for the sake of all that's holy (pun intended). <-that was, of course, after I, and several others, had tried to help her improve.
I can attest to being one of the people asking to not be put in her alliance because I couldn't do my job as RDM if I also had to do her job as WHM. But back to Cyn, who would complain that something wasn't done right but hadn't, to my knowledge, provided information to help us 'improve' without being condescending. I wouldn't have anything against these people, even the playing, if they didn't have such a put-down attitude. I don't need to go to events only to hear constantly how one person didn't think it was good enough. I didn't think it was necessary to give her anything, but I could see how the SH felt bad for having to do this and felt it an appropriate compensation, despite her attitude. I don't know what happened with Cyn, but I feel it was a long time coming. He'd been unhappy in the shell for a long time, even before getting all of the points he had. I have my own thoughts on why they stayed that I will keep to myself. This is just stuff I felt had to be said. Nobody is a saint in this. Please stop pretending like that isn't truth.
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Xaero
Soldier
Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb!
Posts: 2,737
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Post by Xaero on Sept 27, 2006 6:17:47 GMT -5
This here is a quote from KI by Cynric who is obviously becoming dumber by the minute. For if he even did the fucking math of lets see lets say we pulled in 40 mil in a month from dynamis lol quite a shit load eh?? lets take that 40 mil an take away 70% of its, as that 70% goes back to the members(of which cynric was also receiving his part of, and his wife aswell). doesnt leave a whole lot left does it... which btw Cynric just for YOUR info in case YOU didnt relize it Dynamis costs 1 million to get into. And now if YOU figure we been running a few of the Dynamis-COP's aswell recently... welll..
Yet another brilliant quote from da man of the hour Cynric. yes these people were givin shit. You wanna fuckin know why, cuz they often dedicated themselves to theirs friends an the shell, AND WHEN then quit the game they more often then not gave their expensive shit to the bank to hold or sell.
doubt i really need to say it.. but its from you know who again. We USED her?
1) She was compensated for her points as she earned em at the end of the month payout like everyone else.
2) These are the items Zanne earned ie that she spent her points on u will note the date the items were won, and the points spent on the item.
-- 03/30/06 WHM AFv2 Feet 43 -- 05/06/06 Aqua Legs 32 -- 05/23/06 Kirin's Pole 126 -- 06/06/06 Aqua Head 21
During her stay here EO also got Zanne her Reverned Mail which costed her 0 points an 0 gil!
ehh im sure you know once again who this is quoted from yay Cynric!. Ok shit for brains 1 the person did not buy the cloth for 120 points. The person got a discount spending 120 points as STATED in our spending points to get a discount off on the purchase price.
This is a direct quote from the LS discount qualification guide, posted in our points section. That ALL MEMBERS can view. This is not a hidden document or anything. The post is also clearly label so people from florida or those easiely confused could figure out. LS Discount Guidelines (April 1, 2006) is the title of the post
And last but not least I would hate to leave out what all you have gained so far. Since we used you an all. OF course keep in mind that again he still received his regular payout like everyone else.
Cynric -- 04/15/06 Ushikirimaru 9 -- 04/15/06 Seiryu's Kote 31 -- 04/20/06 SAM AFv2 Legs 13 -- 06/06/06 Genbu's Kabuto 17 -- 06/08/06 SAM AFv2 Feet 52 -- 06/15/06 SAM AFv2 Hands 12
During Cynrics stay we got him his Sobo Sukhiro for 0 points an 0 gil. Not 100% on this, but i belive we also got him his O-hat aswell for again 0 points an 0 gil.(I'm sure if i could find the document that contained who we did these for I would know for certain though)
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Xaero
Soldier
Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb!
Posts: 2,737
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Post by Xaero on Sept 27, 2006 6:57:15 GMT -5
This is a quote from nugget on KI
Well how to address this hmmm.... well Nugget I myself have been a SH in EO since like almost when we started up. Here are the items I've earned.
Xaero -- 03/10/06 Sam Relic Gkt 4 -- 05/13/06 Tonbo-Giri 4
And in many other cases of the other sackholders aswell we often let our members get first shot at any of the goods. Atleast in my oppinion just so people cant say we are playing favs. matter of fact out of the like 4-5 Osodes that have dropped only 1 SH has one, and he got earned it befor ever becoming a SH
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Post by Jonathan on Sept 27, 2006 7:24:47 GMT -5
I don't think it could be made clear, or said enough. We didn't use either of you for 6 months, and we didn't kick you 6 months ago not because we wanted to use either of you - but because we had hope things would become better. As did you.
I personally put a lot of effort into trying to help Zanne and did so always in a friendly manner, but she was unreachable, and refused to bend to logic, insisting her way is the right way. I also personally defended her, admiring her dedication despite her lack of application. In the end her undoing was her attitude. As the attitude worsened, this pushed her beyond the limit. It became clear she was unhappy, and a result was making a lot of others needlessly unhappy. That, capped off with a very unruly experience in dynamis, was the breaking point. And it's not as though all through her journey here she helped with zero compensation, awaiting the day to spend her points earned for hard work. She collected her monthly payouts and picked up a few pieces of gear. If she was so adamant in spending her points she should have adjusted her attitude and listened to the advice so many tried to give.
Since you're so fond of comparing my family to a business, in real life if you happen to be fired before you can collect pension - oh well, tough luck. If I'm fired before my company issues me my personal day or issues out yearly bonuses, I don't get to benefit.
If spending her points was such a concern, she should have tried to be on better behaviour. We paid her her salary. It was up to her to keep up with expected standards in skill and attitude in order to maintain her position long enough to enjoy extra benefits.
Same goes to Cynric, who displayed time and time again disgusting behaviour and poor sportsmanship and who in the end, resigned before getting to enjoy his benefits.
-
You love comparing us to a business, but your twisted concepts of an LS work against you too. This is a game, you're supposed to have fun with your linkshell above all else. You had no right making us miserable as a result of us happening to be a convenient way to get the pixels you so desired.
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Post by Jonathan on Sept 27, 2006 7:51:44 GMT -5
Speaking of forced pops like O. Hat: Cynric received his O. Hat and Sobo. Zannefair also received Shen's Reverend Mail, Optical Hat, and Rostrum Pumps.
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Post by Jonathan on Sept 27, 2006 8:34:26 GMT -5
While we're dispelling the theory about SH and old members getting things first or unfairly... First of all, SH tend to be the oldest members. And as such, they've been attending events for longer and have been accumulating points for longer. I don't see how this is not earned. I don't see how we, with a negligible amount of experienced players, learning sky together for the first time, doing Gods together for first time, learning everything together for the first time - havn't earned this naturally occurring and even, unavoidable, prerogative. Meanwhile newer members get to experience what we've built and what we have to offer them. Despite this though, SH are given 0 advantages other than the fact they've joined the ls first and thus have been accumulating points for longer. And the fact that some longstanding members have become SH and some havn't is totally irrevelant ie: the same joined first = opportunity to accumulate more points applies to both. Oh yeah, and while we're sampling the gear of some of the SH: Member's DropsNote: List does not include forced spawn NM items like Optical Hat, etc[...] Jonathan -- 03/09/06 MNK AFv2 Feet -- 03/14/06 Genbu's Kabuto -- 06/27/06 Suzaku's Sune-Ate -- 07/10/06 MNK AFv2 Hands [...] -updated as of 09/19/06 This is all my 75 mnk and 75 brd has. Oh, and an O. Hat. I've been in EO since before the linkshell was bought from the npc in Port windurst on the night of June 22nd, 2004. So please, don't associate SH with greed, we're not on your level.
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Post by Sosa on Sept 27, 2006 8:56:39 GMT -5
Eh. As far as Zanne goes, I can personally attest to being one of the people that attempted to help her improve, on several different ocassions. I would often find myself in her party, and running out of MP while she had close to full. When she did cure or haste, she tended to overlap something I had already cast, usually several seconds later, wasting any MP that she did use. Since I spent so much time with her, I tried helping her any chance we got. She seemed fairly receptive to me, but overall, she just didn't improve.
I liked her personality (if not skill) up to the point where she got into an argument with several members/SH over an unexpected item drop that they felt should go to the LS bank, since it was a group effort and the distribution method wasn't determined. Regardless of whether she was right or wrong, or what really happened, she acted like an ass. That wrote her off in my book.
I didn't know Oldman well enough to presume I could pass judgement on his character now, after everything has been said and done. I respected his dedication as a tank, and from what little direct contact I saw, he seemed to be a decent guy. I was very disappointed to hear about the circumstances behind his departure, though it's not my desire to participate in a witch-hunt over something I wasn't able to see with my own eyes.
And Jon: I couldn't possibly have said my mind on the subject better than you did two posts above.
[Edit: Make that three posts above, you posted another one while I was typing... XD]
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Post by tarick on Sept 27, 2006 11:37:48 GMT -5
Just to add to those lists, Cynric received $5,978,440 in monthly payouts for the 6 months he was with us.
A few other points.
1. God I wish we could put the past behind us and solve the issue at hand.
2. There were 4 SH in EO at the time Cynric's pearl "broke". Another 3 were in sky, on our sky pearl. Now, no SH claims to have broken his EO pearl, and he never mentioned his SeeDs pearl. Why is that? Wouldn't you, if you had a second LS pearl, put that on to find out wtf is up? Unless, of course, he dropped it, then realized he was throwing away his chance at an osode. There was no group decision to kick Cynric, but after his pearl was gone, in whatever manner it was gone, it was decided that that was for the best.
3. What would you do? I mean, there's no manual for this sort of situation. EO has asked members to leave before, but they weren't hardcore contributors to the LS. Give him an osode? We had been willing to let him walk away with an osode that night. We didn't have another Kirin scheduled until the next month. He had already put up with us for a month (admittedly hating us and not respecting us). He made his disdain more and more obvious on a daily basis. Would you keep him around? Would you give him a new pearl?
So we're left without an osode, we don't have a bank balance capable of buying one for him. Truthfully, I'm the only person left in the LS with an osode. Should I give him mine? Would you, as an officer in your LS, give one away just to get him off your case? Would you, as a member of your LS, be happy seeing a member give away an item to someone like this?
What would you do? This thread isn't locked. I really want to know. I've only been in 2 other linkshells in my day, but I can't imagine they're all that much different. I'm sure if I was in another LS, I'd find friends a lot like the ones I have in this. I'm sure I'd annoy people just like I do in this one. So pretend this is your LS, that you just got KI-flamed.
What would you do?
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 27, 2006 11:52:40 GMT -5
He got the Sam AFv2 Head as well. In addition to whatever forced pops he received.
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Post by nedicinevi on Sept 27, 2006 12:59:25 GMT -5
It's time to let sleeping Aura Pots lie.
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Post by tempus on Sept 27, 2006 18:39:32 GMT -5
Since there was an actual intelligent question raised in the KI thread asking about our point system, Ill respond here. Why here? Well cause I dont have a KI account and have never felt the need for one.
So for any of you lovely KI trolls, lol, here's a very brief summary:
Dynamis: Max 8 points per run Ulli: 3 points if during "official" times, 6 if on own initiative Zip: 3 points if during "official" times, 5 if on own initiative Despot: 2 points if during "official" times, 3 if on own initiative Not going to bother listing all sky demi's, you get the idea Sky Gods: 1 Kirin: 2
All items have min bids.
All sky and dynamis cash drops, except osode and pole go to bank to be sold. 70% is then paid out to members each month, via a total gil earned/total LS points earned ratio. 30% is used to fund dynamis, silly events like screenshot contests, and whatever else is determined to be for the good of the ls.
Not a horribly complicated system, though I really do want to simplify it someday...
So, if cynric attended 2 dynamis runs a week, plus assorted sky events, he could easily earn 20 or more points a week.
Oh, and in comparison to cynric's 400ish, I have the most points, over 700. Why? Cause Im Drk main and sky has shit all for gear I care about.
-t
PS Ok, go back to flaming us.
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Post by eragot on Sept 27, 2006 21:03:07 GMT -5
I'm not oen for much drama, I get enough of that at work, I just like to read these things for the funny things people say when they are upset.
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Xaero
Soldier
Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb!
Posts: 2,737
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Post by Xaero on Sept 27, 2006 22:30:12 GMT -5
I'm not oen for much drama, I get enough of that at work, I just like to read these things for the funny things people say when they are upset. lol that actually i added in for just a bit of humor to lighten the mood a little. The upset part ended up causing the use of vulgar language which really wasnt needed. Id clean the post up, but its just alot of work for something that will hopefully jus go away soon enough
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