Keep the Internet Free

[Bridger - Retired Paladin]

Lemmings are pretty suicidal, that's pretty self destructive.

[_Code]

To the individual lemming. He was speaking in regards to self destructive as a species. And as for lemmings:

Lemming populations go through rapid growths and subsequent crashes that have achieved an almost legendary status, largely because of the Walt Disney Pictures film, White Wilderness, which was produced in 1958 and reappeared on television at regular intervals for many years afterwards. White Wilderness popularized, using staged footage, the myth that during population booms Norway Lemmings become suicidal and leap en masse off cliffs into the sea. For this reason, the term "lemming" is often used in slang to denote those who mindlessly follow the crowd, even if destruction is the result.

The reputation of lemmings as mindless creatures who will unhesitatingly run off a cliff, heedless of the danger, is reflected in the popular series of video games called "Lemmings."

So, thats not true. Next?

[Nauren]

Self Destructive animal? Sugar Gliders...I raise them. When an abnormality is noticed, they tend to chew their appendiges completely off normally leading to death. I had one that chewed her hind leg off and her entire tail.

Its referred to as self-mutilation

I think humans just have more tools to be self destructive.

although there is a purpose to the below..its more of a kamikaze thing..still suicidal.

"termite soldiers that explode their bodies, which are filled with sticky guts, immobilizing their enemies in goo."


all in all.. many animals are self destructive..but not suicidal like humans thinks of suicidal. They generally have a purpose for their death...where as humans are just dumb.

[Beren]

LMAO, now people . . . pretend you haven't entered this thread yet and you go str8 to the last post and ATTEMPT to correlate a post about sugar gliders eating themselves and "keep the internet free"

I fixed my mistake and started from the beginning and laughed at myself and at the way EO can take an off-topic post, well, off-topic ;p

I guess I should go sign the petition now.

[Bridger - Retired Paladin]

Codeine I can't follow you =/

First I bring up praying mantis where a mom kills the father after it gives birth, also the Japanese Fighting Fish which kill each other.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_fish

Then you throw out and underline "self-destructive", so I gave an example of a species that often kills itself individually. Lemmings kill themselves by falling off of cliffs or drowning in small pools due to fatigue and population control, it says so in your wikepdia entry.

The actual reason for their 'suicide' deaths is because these mass migrations may last many months and the lemmings become too tired to avoid cliff edges or swim when they normally could.

I never talked about different species killing each other. I did say individual members of a species kill each other and listed well known examples. I guess if you want to think that only humans harm each other or themselves you can.

[tarick]

I've found bomb type mobs are rather self-destructive.

[_Code]

But its not suicide. as the quotations imply its a misnomer. Its more akin to driving tired and dying as a result, which can't be described as self destructive. More akin but less severe would be relating it to copulating too much and getting a charlie-horse.

The cramping being the negative result of doing something that your insticts tell you to continue doing. Their instincts tell them to continue migrating, and result in falling off cliffs. They wouldn't fall off the clifts if they didn't live in an area where there are lots of cliffs.

ie: Birds fly into windows and die. They aren't committing suicide, nature is telling them to keep flying, the glass tells them their bones can't handle a sudden impact.

Never said humans are the only species that hurt themselves, or others; but its unarguable that humans are the most self destructive, and enviromentally desctructive species around. Which is what Sosa originally said.

Kinda like saying ant's are the most industrious species building the largest structures on earth; which obviously is incorrect, human's build larger structures (Cities, monuments, trains-planes-boats-SUV's); but in relation to the ant's size, ant's probably do in fact build the largest structures. ^^

_Code

[tarick]

This is seriously the best argument we could come up with for the forums?

We need some drama or something.

[_Code]

Argument sounds too agressive. I prefer "Office-Time-Consuming-Debate".

And you smell funny tarick... and.... your hair cut is out of date!!!

[tarick]

Yeah, soap probably smells a bit wierd to those who never use it.

And mohawks never go out of style.

[_Code]

Touche'. But what about the lemmings?

[Bridger - Retired Paladin]

I have rarely if ever seen an EO thread stay on topic.

I consider any action which results in an individual's own death to be self-destructive, especially when there was nothing man made which influenced the death. If you do not consider an animal drowning itself self-destructive, we can discuss murder rates.

codeine said:

its unarguable that humans are the most self destructive, and enviromentally desctructive species around.

No it's not

What % of male Japanese fighting fish kill each other to what % of humans kill each other?

Well, if you throw 100 male fighting fish in a tank and only 1-2 come out alive, that's a murder rate of 98-99% in a few minutes. I don't know what the human murder rate is, but if you throw 100 humans into a room, they don't all instantly kill each other, so it's less than 98-99%.

We can go buy 100 fighting fish, throw them into an aquarium and test this. We can also go buy 100 humans, throw them into an aquarium and test this.

Now if you throw 100 male fighting fish into a big ocean, and they don't find each other, the murder rate goes to 0%.

Similarily, if you throw 100 male humans in the ocean, and they don't find each other, their murder rate also goes to 0.

Is there any evidence which supports that human beings are the most destructive? Can you prove that humans are more self-destructive than every last species? Have you run controlled tests comparing the self - destructiveness of humans to the self - destructiveness of every other last species? To my knowledge tests have not been run, and will not be run since every animal rights group on the planet would protest it.

[tarick]

codeine said:

Touche'. But what about the lemmings?

Who, christians or teenagers?

Both self-destructive.


We're the most everything, because we do everything on a greater scale, because we gave ourselves the ability to expand to a greater scale. Because a 2 mm high ant can make an anthill thats 1 meter high, doesn't make it the most industrious. They make 1 anthill, over and over. Meanwhile, we design robots that build cars that travel on roads, which we have paved over anthills.

We're hardly more self-destructive than anything else, when looked on the opportunities we have to be as such. Any one of us could go out and purchase a weapon and kill off 100 people, but we don't. We co-exist.

As far as harm to the environment, the only reason we are of more harm to the environment is because we have the capacity to be of more harm. You think locusts care how they affect crops?

Simply, the comparison of humans to any other species is pointless.

[_Code]

bridger said:

I have rarely if ever seen an EO thread stay on topic.

I consider any action which results in an individual's own death to be self-destructive, especially when there was nothing man made which influenced the death. If you do not consider an animal drowning itself self-destructive, we can discuss murder rates.

Thats not necessarily true, but it depends on what position your coming from. Personally I would use the term "Self-Destructive" in an intentional manner. If I'm driving home and fall asleep at the wheel and die as a result, it is self destructive in as much as noone else was involved in my death. But it wasn't intentional. Thats really more of a Semantics argument. Tho your probably correct by definition, as the definition of "Self Destructive" doesn't specify that it needs to be intentional.

codeine said:

its unarguable that humans are the most self destructive, and enviromentally desctructive species around.

No it's not

What % of male Japanese fighting fish kill each other to what % of humans kill each other?

Well, if you throw 100 male fighting fish in a tank and only 1-2 come out alive, that's a murder rate of 98-99% in a few minutes. I don't know what the human murder rate is, but if you throw 100 humans into a room, they don't all instantly kill each other, so it's less than 98-99%.

We can go buy 100 fighting fish, throw them into an aquarium and test this. We can also go buy 100 humans, throw them into an aquarium and test this.

Now if you throw 100 male fighting fish into a big ocean, and they don't find each other, the murder rate goes to 0%.

Similarily, if you throw 100 male humans in the ocean, and they don't find each other, their murder rate also goes to 0.

Is there any evidence which supports that human beings are the most destructive? Can you prove that humans are more self-destructive than every last species? Have you run controlled tests comparing the self - destructiveness of humans to the self - destructiveness of every other last species? To my knowledge tests have not been run, and will not be run since every animal rights group on the planet would protest it.

Firstly, thats really a per capita discussion there. Earth's population has passed 6 billion. I'd be shocked if there were 6 billion fighting fish in the world.

By your same argument you could say that Cats are the most destructive to mice, because if you put them all in a combined space with Mice, you wont have any left.

But thats all situational. Humans, as a species seek out one another, expand, and destroy. And not just destroy each other, strip mining, clear cutting rain forests; no other species in the history of time has been as environmentally, inter-species, and personally self destructive as the Human race.

Not many of your fighting fish have distroyed coral for territorial gain.

[_Code]

tarick said:

codeine said:

Touche'. But what about the lemmings?

Who, Zealots or teenagers?

Both self-destructive.

FIFY. Dont just go after Christianity, every religion has its own "Lemming" like quality to it. but whatever makes you happy I suppose.

We're hardly more self-destructive than anything else, when looked on the opportunities we have to be as such. Any one of us could go out and purchase a weapon and kill off 100 people, but we don't. We co-exist.

Meh, the only party of that that I really agree with are the Locust reference. Clown fish and Anemones Co-Exist, humans segregate, profile, and constantly clash, which isn't found in the animal kingdom to the level that it is in Humanity. Given that could be a per capita discussion, but I've never seen an assembly, execution, or disaster to the levels of say, Rowanda.

Humans are more destructive, simply because we have the capacity to be. Animals dont. Whatever the reasoning, Human's still take the cake as the most destructive.

Simply, the comparison of humans to any other species is pointless.

QFT