Maybe Kansas Isn't So Bad

[flyingsnow]

did they have sex before they were married? if so, that's stat rape. and were they legally married w/his parent's consent? if so, no stat rape. just some food for thought. i'm going to stop chiming into this section now. i need to 1) work and 2) i will get really argumentative/forceful with my replies should i start to look this shit up on Westlaw or LexisNexis and i just don't have the time for it - ever, rofl. it's a waste of valuable space in my brain to figure it out. i need that space for useless ffxi knowledge.

[Nauren]

They had sex before getting married....they had parental permission to get married. just fyi lol. I'm curious as to how that even worked myself...but its all over the news.

[_Code]

Glad you noticed Tarick. Alot of the arguments brought up have been Emotional ramifications, and being "ready". All of which apply to social mores. Watch enough episodes of Dawsons Creek and any reasonably sane (for the gender) female wouldn't want to start having sex until their 20's.

As for the conditions younger mothers usually live in see this. Studies show that most teen (or pre-teen) mothers are inpoverished.

As for health, and the reason I've not joined this discussion; I was researching; here's some info:

Teen-pregnancy related health risks include:

Infant Health Risks:
# Teenage mothers are less likely to gain adequate weight during their pregancy, leading to low birthweight, which is associated with infant and childhood disorders and a high rate of infant mortality. Low-birthweight babies are more likely to have organs that are not fully developed, which can result in complications such as bleeding in the brain, respiratory distress syndrome, and intestinal problems.

# Teenage mothers tend to have poor eating habits and are less likely to take recommended daily multivitamins to maintain adequate nutrition during pregnancy. They are also more likely to smoke, drink, or take drugs during pregnancy, which can cause health problems for the baby.

# Teenage mothers are less likely to seek regular prenatal care. Prenatal care is essential for monitoring the growth of the fetus; keeping the mother�s weight in check; and advising the mother on nutrition and how she should take care of herself to ensure a healthy pregnancy. According to the American Medical Association, babies born to women who do not have regular prenatal care are 4 times more likely to die before the age of 1 year.

# Children born to teenage mothers are less likely to receive proper nutrition, health care, and cognitive and social stimulation. As a result, they may have an underdeveloped intellect and attain lower academic achievement.
# Children born to teenage mothers are at greater risk for abuse and neglect.
# Boys born to teenage mothers are 13% more likely to be incarcerated.
# Girls born to teenage mothers are 22% more likely to become teenage mothers.

source

Notice a similarity? "Less likely to seek regular ~ care". "poor eating habits". "Abuse". "Neglect".

Here's another unrelated website on the subject.

All the same ideaology. The greater health risks for the mother and infant are all situational. I'm not advocating reproducing with someone in a training bra. But, as the discussion has seemed to be about the actual risks of teenage pregnancy, the only thing I've been able to find has been in regards to the social standing of the mother, which is not applicable to the age in any way.

I've even done specific searches regarding Cervical development, risk of being pregnant during puberty, etc. Couldn't find anything notable; other then "The woman isnt prepared", which again is a social/upbringing view, Nurture not nature.

References
1. National Center for Health Statistics. Births to Teenagers in the United States, 1940-2000. National Vital Statistics Reports, 9/25/01.
2. National Center for Health Statistics. Births: Final Data for 2002. National Vital Statistics Reports, 12/17/03.
3. The National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy. Teen Pregnancy—So What? Updated 2/04, accessed 5/11/04.
4. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Healthy Youth: Health Topics: Sexual Behaviors. Updated 4/26/04, accessed 5/10/04.
5. The National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy. Not Just Another Single Issue: Teen Pregnancy’s Link to Other Critical Social Issues. Washington, D.C., 2002.
6. The Annie E. Casey Foundation. 2003 Kids Count Data Book Online. Baltimore, MD, 6/11/03.

and the websites listed above.

_Code

[_Code]

tarick said:

flyingsnow said:

the only thing i have to add to this whole discussion is that if one of you boys tries to hook up with a 12-15 year old girl (or god forbid, younger), or vice versa - older woman picking up boy child - i will not represent you in court. i will not give you legal advice. you are on your own. you are a nasty person who deserves to be raped by the big ugly men in jail. thank you and have a nice day

rofl, j/k. but seriously, don't do it ><

But we won't need a lawyer if we do it in Kansas, I thought...

Snow is correct, this applies to marriage only, you hide the red-rocket, and your a statutory rapist, bound for a life in PMITA prison. _{Office Space FTW!}

Kinda like Colorado (iirc?) decriminalizing marijuana, but Federal Government still says No to the Ganja.

And i'm not trying to snag me a pre-teen. I just got me an of-ager that still looks like a teeny bopper ^^

[estara]

tarick said:

estara said:

All recorded fact goes against that statement.

How many underage mothers live clean lives, eat the right foods to support the baby, don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs. I'm betting the percentage is way below that of standard aged (25-30?) mothers, who plan for their children.

You'll notice though, everything I've stated in this conversation has been stated in such a way so that it's not passed off as fact. It was prompted by something that was stated as fact (unhealthy till 18).

I could be wrong, but I've never said I was sure I was right, just that it was what I thought.

first off, I wasn't trying to point out how wrong you may have been or w/e. I was just saying what I knew. I don't really expect men to know much about women's bodies, just like I don't really know much about men's bodies (cooties! eww!). I was just trying to share. If my posts tended to seem a little strong its cause women's health is something I know about. I've put a lot of my free time into investigating the way my body works. When I responded to Nauren's post it was just to say that the majority of empirically gathered evidence pointed in the opposite way of what he said.

I guess some of my response has that "well, I'm a woman, I know about the female body, you're a man, so you can't possibly know, etc." feel to it. I apologize about that. But to a certain extent I feel that to be true. Just like, as a women, I can't know about men's bodies they way men know about them, men can't know about women's bodies the way women know about them. It is a lived experience.

To clarify one last thing. When I said "all recorded fact goes against that" I was referring to the how long it actually takes a body to heal from having a child. The estimate is 7 years, give or take. I wasn't really referring to how life style affects how bodies heal either. If a girl has a baby when she is still in her teens, she is disrupting the development of her body in destructive ways. If she keeps having kids, instead of letting her body heal, she furthers the destruction. That's really all I was trying to say.

[flyingsnow]

codeine said:

And i'm not trying to snag me a pre-teen. I just got me an of-ager that still looks like a teeny bopper ^^

sure code. we all see you lookin at tarus thinkin, mmmmm, yummy

rofl, ok, now i'm just creeping myself out ><;

[_Code]

flyingsnow said:

sure code. we all see you lookin at tarus thinkin, mmmmm, yummy

Well... yeah, but who doesn't?

I work in a mall, I see more prosti-tots in a day then you'd probably even like to think about. I'll take the one I got at home any day. Thanks ^^

[estara]

code, if you want any definite info on cervical development you're gonna have to look in books. The books I've had access to are Our Bodies, Ourselves, Women's Body, and less importantly, The John's Hopkins Family Health Book. Yes, the first two are books by feminists, but if you really want good information on it, uncluttered by social viewpoints, they're the best places to look. You don't find much hard info on the web because female fertility is such a hot political topic that a lot of it is skewed.

Furthermore, it helps to talk to women about it. Example: both my mother and aunt were raped and experienced pregnancies in their teen years. My aunt had a variety of complications which resulted in her being infertile. My mother did as well, but only after she had had 3 children. The complications were a result of cervical infections. That's how I know about that stuff.

[Nauren]

My ex had cervical cancer after having a baby in her early 20's....and I'm not denying women know more about their own body..because I'm sure they do....in a way..but that doesn't mean a national institute doesn't know what they are talking about considering its made up of men and women and since no gender is smarter then the other (place emphasis here), then two heads are better then one.

btw... tampons and bra's were invented by men.

[_Code]

One of the specific searches I did was in regards to cervical development. And found no direct corrolation between early pregnancy and cervical development. From WebMD, to WomensHealthOrganization, etc.

Anything you can find in books, you will find on the internet, the trick is go to factual sources and not anything regarding social views, and topical analysis.

As far as cervical infections etc, your also speaking of rape cases. Which are another matter entirely; and have much less to do with the age of the pregnancy, then with the manner in which it came about. I see you have a personal implication in this discussion tho; and I apologize for that situation. But it doesn't apply to the actual risks. Not saying its an impossibility, but from a different source then the age of the mother.

As for "Women understand more of their bodies". Yes and No. My mother has been a driver for much much longer then me. Does she understand more about cars then me? No. I agree women understand more of how they feel, what to expect, how their bodies react, but thats all learned, and not an understanding of their bodies on the scientific level. I'm 24 years old, I know where it hurts when I'm out of breath, I know where I get discomfort when I'm hungry. Were I told to dissect a body on my understanding of it with my personal experiences (and not scientific study) I'd be lost.

Again, I'm just going by research, any opposing studies or sources, I'd be glad to hear.

_Code

[Nauren]

There are 3 views to everything including physiology.

The experiencer (lack of better words)

The person witnessing the experience of the experiencer

The person being told what happened from the experiencer and viewer of experiencer

each person will bring something new and most often correct to the table. One thing is undeniable...we know less about our bodies then those who are paid big bucks to work on our bodies i.e doctors.

[estara]

what's your point about tampons and bras nauren? >.>

I hate tampons, they're uncomfy. I use them when it's more convient, but mostly I avoid them.

I also hate bras... they're uncomfy too, for the most part. There are times when its nice to have something holding your boobs down so they don't bounce all over the place... but when not doing anything that causes bouncing, I prefer to not wear a bra.

Inventing bras and tampons doesn't earn males any bonus points

[estara]

lol I just read my last post again... that gives me a giggly fit lol

[_Code]

the point was a Man came up with them. Someone who, by your definition, doesn't understand women's bodies as much. Your opinion of their comfort aside, are both widely used and the best at what they do

_/shiver

estara said:

its nice to have something holding your boobs down so they don't bounce all over the place...

and I'll never forgive the man that invented the Bra for that....

_Code

[Nauren]

we dont' accept him into manhood. He was an evil evil person and should be stopped!