SH 15M WTF?

[-=[Tork]=-]

estara said:

Second, Nihilism is very different from existentialism. They're complete opposites of an idea, in fact. Nihilism teaches that there's no point to life, so we should basically all give up, etc etc. Existentialism teaches that there is no point, so therefore the only thing that matters is the moment you live in. With this idea every moment becomes sacred, because there will never be another moment like it. Existentialism gives hope where Nihilism denies hope.

"Existentialism is a philosophical movement that views human existence as having a set of underlying themes and characteristics, such as anxiety, dread, freedom, awareness of death, and consciousness of existing, that are primary. That is, they cannot be reduced to or be explained by a natural-scientific approach or any approach that attempts to detach itself from or rise above these themes. "

"Nihilism as a philosophical position is the view that the world, and especially human existence, is without meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Some philosophers are considered nihilists if they hold the philosophical position that either (1) nothing exists (all there is is nothing), (2) the reality we humans experience does not exist at all as we see it, or (3) reality is unknowable, and thus the pursuit of objective understanding is valueless."


Hmmm…..

[tarick]

estara said:

oh ya, fourth, your friend that never goes out and does stuff in the real world. Here's this biggest reason why he sucks and is pathetic: he will never get laid. And isn't that the point of being a guy?? Getting laid. Yup. Just thought I'd say that.


All those people who are super rich in game without buying gil, who have lots of crafts 100+, who have relic armor etc., they have no life. No point in worshipping them if they only play the game to escape the fact that they have no life and have no idea how to have a life (ie, getting laid (yes, having a life involves getting laid (sorry tempy))).

To reiterate what Code said earlier, that's only your definition of life. In reality, why is getting laid any less of a waste of time than this game? You don't get any long term benefit from getting laid. In fact, unless you are trying to have a baby, only bad things can come from it.

I used to be a Naurenist, but his philosophy preached nacho cheese, and I struggled too much with that because I'm a cool ranch guy.

[Gamereaver]

This thread is making my head hurt.

But for some reason I'm horny now so time for some porn because pictures of boodies make the world go round.

[_Code]

estara said:

Second, Nihilism is very different from existentialism. They're complete opposites of an idea, in fact. Nihilism teaches that there's no point to life, so we should basically all give up, etc etc.

Dammit Est, now you and I gotta go at it. And you've a head start on me too, there'll be some posts from me, but I gotta do it one at a time.

"We should just basically give up". No. Thats not it, Thats called suicidal. I think its more of a unchanging environment, your not going to make a difference. Its not a "giving up", so much as nothing will change anyway. Sure it can be depressing to even fathom that concept, but again thats where the "God is Dead" idea came from. And, its more of a Fundamentalist Scientific style of believe.

Fundamentalist Christianity : the Bible is the word of god, not up for interpretation.

Fundamentalist Science : There is nothing beyond what you can prove.



I can see this being a good debate. Dont let me down ^^

_Code

[_Code]

estara said:

Here's this biggest reason why he sucks and is pathetic: he will never get laid. And isn't that the point of being a guy?? Getting laid.

/sigh....

I know i'm gonna get kicked outta the testosterone club for this.....


ahem...


There is more to life then getting laid....


Alot of people, not just virgins, have renounced and actively dont take part in sexual intercourse. I wont argue the seperate points of a life of celibacy, (health, both mental and physical, stress reduction etc), but its a viable option; can't really renouce one person for not focusing on that solely.

_Code

[Nauren]

its a proven fact that a good sexual relationship is both healthy and a stress reliever. so I don't see how celibacy can be the same.

[_Code]

tarick said:

I used to be a Naurenist, but his philosophy preached nacho cheese, and I struggled too much with that because I'm a cool ranch guy.

/exalt.



And thank you, tarick. said my point before I replied.

_Code

[_Code]

nauren said:

its a proven fact that a good sexual relationship is both healthy and a stress reliever. so I don't see how celibacy can be the same.

And its also a proven fact that most sexually transmitted diseases come from sex.... and cause stress.

also, the #1 cause of divorce is money. Children are expensive....

Your 100% right, with an asterisk. "Regular orgasm is healthy and a stress reliever". Not necessarily sex.


its also a proven fact that women are the #1 cause of stress in the universe (studies were conducted at my apartment >.>).


_Code

[estara]

codeine said:

its also a proven fact that women are the #1 cause of stress in the universe (studies were conducted at my apartment >.>).

for men maybe... for women it's men. It was found that married men lived longer then single men, while it was also found that single women lived longer than married women.


My general idea of "giving up" isn't suicide. It's deciding that since there's no point, we shouldn't bother changing anything and should just save our energy for, I dunno, complaining about the way things are?


Tork, where did you get your definitions? Cause that's way different than the way it was explained to me.


And I'm not saying that sex is the only reason for human's to live their lives. Because we have such complex brains and ways of thinking we need more "meaning" in our lives and the things we do. Yes, we are animals, but we're animals who think way too much. Usually people who don't have sexual relations devote their lives to some higher purpose, such as achieving spiritual enlightenment or transforming society for the better.

In terms of Tork's roomie, who eats, sleeps, goes to work, and plays FFXI, the objection is that that's bordering on addiction. And as we all know addiction is bad and dangerous and shouldn't be allowed (I said that in one of my sarcastic voices). People object to others "wasting" their lives like that because it is outside of the socially accepted reasons to not have sex.

To be a good human you must reproduce. If you choose not to reproduce, you must have given up sex for either spiritual enlightenment or social transformation (ie, sacrificed yourself for some greater good). Not reproducing for reasons of addiction, pleasure, etc etc, is selfish and will not be tolerated (also said in my sarcastic voice). Scholarly pursuits are also selfish. We all know those smart people need to reproduce to make future generations smart.

Human society from the start has been based on raising children (continuing the species). Up until the industrial revolution extended families and villages raised children as a group. There was a huge social structure devoted to raising children, which was gleefully smashed to pieces by the early industrialists. The only socially accepted people who didn't take part in the child raising structure were those who chose to devote their lives to god. The others were outcasts and vagabonds.

And, if I wanted to I could turn this into a formal essay, with a bibliography and citations. But y'all wont give me college credit, so nevermind that.

[Nauren]

to Code:

that why condoms were invented. The act of procreation is healthy (more so then masterbation) otherwise you and I both would be olympic athletes

yes the "i'm allergic to rubber" has worked before



Sex is wierd. See I (in my single years) didn't care for sex that much either. I mean I probably did it alot but that was due to other things i.e drugs/alcohol.

I was in it for the head lol. Call me lazy....whatever...but I worked for it I guess.....I had a few "HOD's" (head on demand) girls that I'd just call up..meet get pleasured and leave.

So i'm kinda like that..I came home..ate...stayed on the computer chatting all day...then went to bed and repeated....other then the (HOD) insert.

[_Code]

Nauren: So has the "Nah, its still on, i swear"

Estara: Norm McDonald (Comedian, old SNL crew if your not familiar) gave up on sex. I dont think anyone will say he's trying to achieve a higher purpose. hehe

also "To be a good human you must reproduce" I completely, 110%, vehemently disagree with. Alot of extremely sucessful, smart people have not, and had no intentions of ever having children. Just because I dont want children in the future doesn't make me a bad person (all the other foul shit I do, does ^^).

To say humans were put here, whether it be by a higher power, or chemical chance, to reproduce is minimalistic to say the least. Breed in similiarities breed in weakness. My sister's are great parents, and were definately put here to raise children. However, its nothing I want anything to do with. And my best defense, to anyone who asks has always been "Do you think I should influence a child?". No, its nothing bad, I'm not offended by it. I just dont have any desire to be so devoted to another persons life. And I, as well as any others that have no interest in procreating, should not be looked down, or concidered "not good humans".

I by no means have given up sex. I just dont see it as a means for procreation. Its bonding with the one I care about, and intimacy. Not a means to an end. Humans, btw are not the only species that have sex for pleasure; Dolphins often are found copulating without the goal of offspring. Primates, Seals, even goats, donkeys and horses regularly masturbate. Its a release, and a healthy activity.

As for Scholarly pursuits without reproducing; 1) studies have shown that IQ readings directly relate to number of children. 2) Ever known a teacher or professor that doesn't have children? They're educating without reproducing, so that's again, a narrow way of seeing it. I understand your line of thought, but there's a broader picture.

Then you go on to human society, from the start has been about continuing the species, but here's the problem with that, Human society has been a progression from day 1. Basing on our animalistic instincts and urges. To relate reproduction with human society is like relating orange juice to apples. Not only 2 different things, 2 different instances of 2 opposites. Humans were also designed to hunt, kill, gather etc... but its the evolution of actions, thoughts and ideas that seperates us. In this instance, its not so broad anymore. And your purpose in this world isn't necessarily to carry out the original animal behaviors. Fornications is arguably the basest of these instincts.

in closing. LOL @ college credit. ^^

_Code

[Nauren]

unless ofcourse you are religious (a whole other subject) where you are told to be fruitful. I want kids..just not now. Its a statistic that the number of children you have directly related to your intelligence level (points at the Duponts). However its not a fact. To me, statistics are no different then stereotypes.

College professers are a bad example......book smart yes.......other aspects..not so.

Yuna had a college professor that said if you talk about her dog, she would start to miss it and let class out early. What student woudln't bring up her dog every single day?

Do I think procreation has to do with human society? yes I think it very much does. Do I think its all that matters? no..not even close.

[-=[Tork]=-]

I got my definitions from wikipedia...i would not argue with Code because I would pretty much agree with him…. Speaking about human reproduction I knew this guy in college who would always argue that without human reproduction or the possibility of human production you weren’t yielding anything to society(he was a so called utilitarian) and would use that point to argue about gays not being able to marry and shit…. I usually didn’t argue with him because those types of people you just can’t argue with so I just sat their and listend to him sound like an idiot who took one philosophy class and finally understands the world of metaphysics…. bleh, i just woke up kind of slept late and now i'm going out to dinner... so i'll respond later tonight. cya

[_Code]

statistics : understood, and agreed to a point

the college professor analogy was in reference to :

Scholarly pursuits are also selfish. We all know those smart people need to reproduce to make future generations smart.

but good point in the variations of "Smart'

[-=[Tork]=-]

oh sorry for another repost but it would be cool if we could have like a thread called something something discussions because i can see this thread getting very big and I really don't think the name is appropriate now. lol