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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 29, 2016 16:18:43 GMT -5
It was a combination of the Primary and Secondary sources of drama.
1) "ZOMG You were not good enough at helping me get my items as fast as I wanted 2) You are an ???hole.
Ok, so I believe Beren was the CPA and this story now makes more sense.
Let us apply:
Imoh & Aerya: 1) "ZOMG You were not good enough at helping me get my items as fast as I wanted (tell us the bank balance)"
Beren 2) You are an ???hole. (No bank balance for you!)
Imoh & Aerya: 2) You are an ???hole.
That thread is then 13 pages of 2)
Drama understood. Wasn't that it was a secret, they just ignored answering the question and merely stated 2).
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 29, 2016 13:04:26 GMT -5
Oh wait, I remember, I can confirm I am a member. I requested change of status to Markus from ex-member to Retired Orphan 10 years ago, after I quit, and he did approve. I would be willing to spend my 200 points to become a Sack Holder with forum access.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 29, 2016 12:55:38 GMT -5
Drama management is a skill that is hard to develop. 0 tolerance doesn't work, but there are various ways some of which were used by EO to manage it, but you'll still run into complete nonsense.
They might give it to us if we promised to keep it hidden in those forms if we talk about it. Come on guys, Deca Drama Torma needs food. Maybe we make a pact. Bridger and LockeJV do solemly swear, if we are given access to sackholder forms to:
1) not quit the LS 2) not recruit members away from the LS 3) not disclose anything we find outside of the sackholder forms 4) if we find anything we want to b/s about, we will create a Bridger LockeJV drama thread in those forms 5) will in no way represent the LS poorly in game as a result.
Actually wait, I don't know if I am technically a member since I quit 10 years ago.
Ok, I also promise to rejoin EO as a member and participate in all schedule events if I am online.
I think this means we are applying to be sackholders.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 29, 2016 11:29:04 GMT -5
Alright, so made some edits and that's about as much as I think I'll be able to update. I wrote this to the best of my ability, tried to make nice sectioned headings and everything else. Maybe later I'll dig through some of the old schedules dig up and count how many dynamis/sky/sea runs we did.
Would love to get descriptions from Jonathan, Tibent, and Markus to fill in pieces I was missing. Maybe there is a way I could view the membership count over time and display some of that information.
I would request thread stickying if there was a moderator around.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 29, 2016 11:10:19 GMT -5
Normally I'd be in 100% agreement with you, but I am in 49% because of this line: the person it's directed at would sooner delete it before reading it. Yeah I read the posts bridger made about how focusing dynamis on getting 1 person 1 weapon wasn't right, and you deleted it instead of giving a straight answer If people feel they can't bring stuff up, it's going somewhere. The speculation was pretty weak though, he would have been better off sticking with facts. Didn't seem like that post had much effect on the LS and there was just some venting from former members. I would also like to disagree with myself from 10 years ago. Should you keep negative thread? In the long run, no. If all of the negative threads from 10 years ago had been deleted, deca drama torma would not exist. If only Killing Ifrit was still around, maybe deca drama torma would look healthier and have grown up into an uber HNM.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 29, 2016 1:54:40 GMT -5
I don't remember you being involved in drama much, if at all. You always seemed calm and well spoken whenever you got involved with things. I had my moments. Sometimes when you use logic and reason people start at you with accusations. Occasionally I don't do that and degrade to a whiny child. Did partake in the Synergy flame thread found here: ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=59&mid=1138692389294594641&h=50I mention that my post that got deleted on their site. That thread started out reasonable, and after a week no other officer but Bekku posted. After no other officer responded for over a week I then degraded into a whiney 5 year old and that was when my thread was deleted. I'd do it all again, except for the part where I acted like a 5 year old on their site.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 29, 2016 1:32:45 GMT -5
I see the PM you sent about Oldman and Kirin tanking. I was wondering if there was one I sent about Zann training mobs on us in Dynamis Xarcabard. IIRC there was an incident where she was upset about not getting an R3 and it resulted in her dropping party / hourglass and threatening to train us. Oh you're correct, yes, so that PM was about Oldman. So no, I don't have a PM from you about Zannefair threatening to train mobs. You did make a post about it in Sosa's leadership thread, and it was almost exactly worded "So Zannefair threatened to train mobs in Dynamis on us. I will not be held hostage in Dynamis, I'm interested Bridger, how would you have handled the situation?". That wasn't exactly how you said it, if we have mod access we could probably fish it up. I didn't respond to that right away, because it really changed how I felt about it, I actually brewed on the whole thing for about a month before making any decisions and that was new information. I was debating at that time what I should do and if I should ask to rejoin over that post. By the time I went to look for it again it had been deleted. I think the best part of the thread was where panther called Kinya a lair. Reminds me of thundercats. I never met Kinya, but I would defend her not being a lair. Was it Shalyn, not Winterkiss? Might have been Ygrane. Read that name on the thread you sent me to. Was Ygrane a Mithra? Seems like I might be confusing her and Winterkiss. Or it was Winterkiss. -meh- it was someone.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 29, 2016 0:55:00 GMT -5
Deca Drama Torma is old and sad looking, as though someone poorly created him with MS paint.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 28, 2016 18:02:44 GMT -5
DecaDrama = 10 year old Drama old people reflect on because it's fun. Was it Shalyn, not Winterkiss? Can you forward me that PM if you have it? My PM's here were deleted at some point in time. Thanks for the refresh! I believe there were two groups of friends that had unrelated issues with certain officers around that time, which bumped the numbers up a bit. Maybe your Epic Necrobump will include those details. I tried to stay out of the drama (as best I could), although 5-6 people either quit or got booted at least partially because of me (Kinya & friends and the swearing episode, the guy who quit because I lotted Ninja AFv2 in Dynamis, the guy who bought an account and lied about camping THF knife). I wasn't a sackholder and didn't ask questions, and (tried to) keep my opinions to myself. During the bank split, I thought the people leaving had the right to be upset, as the bank obviously needs to be transparently managed. I don't know how something so trivial escalated to a major split (didn't we have an accounting major managing the bank?), but I speculated either KOS was looking for an excuse to get out (Aerya's group) or the original EO leaders were being unreasonable; either way I didn't care because I was staying EO. It sucked though because we were tearing through Dynamis and so close to owning most in-game content. There were former players and part time players who didn't attend events involved in LS politics (as seen in the Leadership thread) and I don't believe that helped matters; that's something that hurt my original LS. It's amazing how one comment made by someone in a leadership position can have such a lasting effect on someone. Anyhow... Drama Torama... Definitely wasn't Shalyn. This was a /tell conversation in game, not a PM. Although you and I had some PMs. I can send you the old exchange we had. From what I saw it may or may not make sense, I didn't quote your deleted post it was based on. What was the Kinya & friends and swearing episode? I think I did see a post about the guy lotting AFV2 Nin, during my digging that was pretty funny. He was real mature about the whole thing. Who bought an account and lied about camping THF knife? I don't remember that one. I also don't know how the bank issue escalated nor cared much. The only thing that seemed weird to me was that everyone was making it sound way more difficult than it was. I thought we had a CPA managing the bank which made me more confused. I offered to write up an excel sheet that would update the balance vs points / pending payouts so it could always be known within seconds. ( I had completely forgotten the bank issue except I went trolling recently ). A lot of times at work I see people not getting things done because they don't know how, not because they don't want to. I expect something like that was going on and it got blown out of proportion. No one really posted anything justifying leaving over the bank. I tend not to keep my mouth shut, so I probably partake in drama more than I intend. Actually, it's probably all the time with lines like "hey guys, let's get this bank thing fixed with an xcel spreadsheet". I also try to not burn bridges. P.S. my epic necrobump will be about how I saw a real life Zanne/Cynric hybrid situation and how I took what I observed from that situation and handled it with a real life employee, and how I handled the perceptions of coworkers who THOUGHT that person was doing a good job and became upset when that person left. I already have it written. Some people may or may not find that interesting. I learned a lot from it.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 28, 2016 17:43:13 GMT -5
I'll respond to you in a new thread, I do want this one to be about LS history. I do want this to stay on topic of how we got from ED to EO to EE and back to EO.
Were you apart of LS from June 2005 to Feb 2006?
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 28, 2016 14:40:14 GMT -5
Alright, the decade old details. We shall refer to this as DecaDrama. If you can wait until 10/12/16, we can discuss it more in my Epic Necrobump! That is true, Winterkiss kept that quiet, she told me in a /tell. We had a whole conversation about it and discussed it a few other times. I am 99% certain that was her, but I could be wrong. I am also willing to recant if she says otherwise, but that is my recollection. For details, yes you can read my post here in black text: edeasorphans.proboards.com/thread/1812/leadership-meansNow in the thread, you had actually responded to me and it was deleted by Xaero. Before he deleted it, you posted something to the effect of "So Zannefair threatened to train mobs in Dynamis on us. I will not be held hostage in Dynamis, I'm interested Bridger, how would you have handled the situation?". I sent you a PM of "what that actually happened?" looks like time stamped 9/23/16. And you confirmed it did. That was where I started to rethink my position. What made me fully rethink my position was in 2008 when I saw Zann meleeing mobs as a Blm and completely refusing to cast any spells. I just saw this. Can't a mod just make a new thread for it and move some stuff around? We've lost so much because of this issue I don't see the harm in talking about it. Maybe the few people who care enough to hear us out could finally understand... And the response to you was... Everything was pretty hush hush, and when we would bring it up back then, people were very upset and trying to stamp out the fire. That's why your post from that thread is gone. It's also why my text on that thread was in black. People didn't want to talk about it. So that's why Winterkiss didn't really publicize the reason. People didn't seem open to discussing it back then. My leaving thread was just "I don't agree with recent decisions" and that's what I was referring to. Hers was "I <3 EO but it's time to move on". Now it's been 10 years, so it's possible I have the wrong person. It was her or another Mithra. For further details, please wait until the Epic Necrobump. I learned a lot from that whole thing and actually I applied what I learned from that event in real life.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 28, 2016 11:59:28 GMT -5
Yes I'll try and tone the notes down. Feel free to post a rewrite of any section and I'll update. I liked the tone of your summary more than mine. Was trying to keep it at the appropriate level which is why I made sure to say " Markus was actually a very good guy about the whole thing".
More than just 3 people were involved. Zannefair, Cynric, Oldman, Bridger, Winterkiss ended up leaving over it. Winter did not publically post and I will recant if she says otherwise. Actually maybe Oldman didn't leave over it, his post talked a lot about not hunting ground NMs, but he did bring that up in his eloquent exit post.
Maybe split isn't the correct word, it's not like that group went off and formed their on endgame LS. My opinion is that did cause a drop in membership. After that we cancelled a Dynamis because we didn't have enough people.
I don't know what happened with that pearl thing either, no one claimed they did it, and Cynric said he didn't throw it away. I think it was Cynric who had that issue (not Zann). I saw some old notes there was some argument over LS chat at the time, but I didn't witness that conversation.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 26, 2016 19:02:49 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll update that information here in a day or so and then look up the WoW Guild Leader's name.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 21, 2016 18:52:52 GMT -5
After having reviewed ancient drama, I have narrowed down 95% of drama down to the following Primary Drama Source:
1) "ZOMG You were not good enough at helping me get my items as fast as I wanted"
That is often followed up by the Secondary Drama Source.
2) "You are an ???hole". (95% of the time this is the result of someone having already engaged in the Primary Drama Source.)
I believe that sums up every single drama thread I ever saw, started, or was involved with. All parties involved with the drama then continually repeat the Secondary Drama Source in various politically correct methods until someone stops posting.
All drama IS that simple.
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Post by Bridger - Retired Paladin on Sept 16, 2016 0:57:32 GMT -5
Locke Started this, I think it deserves it's own thread, and actually, I'd like a bit more of how things went. Not interested in stirring up decade old drama, just trying to state what happened. Well maybe I'm gonna post the funny or stupid parts of the drama. If anyone suggests rewrites for anything, I'll update. I intend to edit this about 100x since I don't have all of the information and a lot of it has to be second hand. Johnathan mentioned he thought EO was founded June 22nd 2004. So this thread is from Eternal Darkness to Edeas Orphans, to Edeas Evolution back to Edeas Orphans to what it is today (a place where people remember how great of times they had). Eternal Darkness Kevorkean created the EternalDarkness linkshell a few days after NA release in november, 2003. He wanted to focus on PVP and run a FFXI pvp shell - hence his name and the LS name. He randomly gave pearls to people including me, Stahn, Tempus, Evona, Koga and Pogo during the first week. We played enough to get a good community going. We branched out and recruited some players you might remember from Titan and even WoW, such as Dragonbane, Avanarius, Mixia, Daeka, Cydian, Lesterp, Raishinshi, Koga, Ionis, Puchuu and Bravocash. We'd have 20-30 people on every night, and I decided to create a website for the group (11/14/03) and do some recruiting outside of game on various Internet websites. Most of the originals became officers and Kevorkean continued to lead the shell. We were mostly Bastokian and fought through the highlands, dunes and qufim together while recruiting more members. Together we worked through magicked skulls, subjob quests, fame-building, started a bank (Edbanker!), the long walk to Jeuno, missions, NM hunting, the jungle, crawler's nest, advanced job quests, and even eco-warrior. Those first couple months were the most fun I ever had gaming. Check that - I'll go as far to say it was the some of the most fun I ever had in my life and I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything. Kevorkean stopped playing regularly after he hit 30 in early December, and he decided to quit before the end of the year which left us leaderless. Nobody really wanted to run the shell and I reluctantly volunteered provided I would be able to delegate responsibilities. I had invested a lot of time and effort into the website (phpnuke implementation with a lot of customization, including built-out forums, stories, and an instant messenger) and I didn't want to see everything go to waste. At that point we had our first "rift" - those who wanted to main advanced jobs restarted at level one, and those maining basic jobs (me, Stahn, Pogo) continued on after 30 which split us up. But things continued to go well through January and the shell was still growing rapidly. We ran scheduled mission events, implemented an application process, held a strict level requirement of 30 (possibly first Titan NA shell to do so), started a crafting forum and ingredient share, and held weekly fun events like level 1 / chocobo races / bastok welcoming committee / dunes night. In February we lost most of our officers. Several quit the game due to real life and others because they thought the LS was too fragmented. The level gaps became more pronounced and the higher level players were scattered. With the PS2 release coming in March, several members proposed mass recruitment. We were averaging 30+ people on each night, and the majority of the officers wanted nothing to do with the PS2 release. But people insisted (Raish and Thistle mostly IIRC), and we decided to stick with the level requirement for the Sr shell and create EDJr. That decision turned out to be a lot of fun at first, and many EO'ers came from EDJr. Markus, Krazi, Kalvatar, Xaero, Dukes, Miruuk, Beren, Corran, and Jonathan all joined up a couple weeks before or after the PS2 release. At one point we had 40 people on ED and 50 people on EDJr, which was over 5% of the server that was online. Unfortunately the influx of people created a lot of drama and lowered the shells average level. When LockesNHS (Titan's first HNM shell) split, one of the groups considered ED but decided against it because we had way too many people. In May, what was left of our higher level players bailed for smaller shells or took time off and I was having a rough time progressing personally. We pulled off a few more good events but the drama just wasn't worth it to me anymore. I asked for someone else to lead the shell (nobody offered so I didn't officially step down), but I let the staff know I was going to be a part timer, and I started wearing CRM most of the time. From there the splits happened. Split 1: Percy (IIRC) and some of his ED Jr friends were in the Sr. shell irritating some originals, I actually got called over during an event with CRM. I asked Percy to stop or he would be suspended. He continued carrying on so I broke his pearl. Percival quit and created Broken Hope, Raishinshi followed and brought some EDJr and a few ED members with him. Nobody cared. Split 2: A month or so later, Pogo came back and was irritated with some of the new members. He started kicking people and they went on to form EO. I didn't even look into what happened because at that point I had already moved on, the LS was doomed because nobody wanted to run it, and it just accelerated the inevitable. Dukes created a shell with most of the remaining members (Synergy), and the few remaining stragglers eventually joined EO. I split time with CRM / ITV, hit 60, got a Scorpion Harness, and then quit. A few months later Dragonbane asked me to come back and help with Sky, so I did. I leveled to 75 with Miruuk, did Tulia with ITV, and then played part time for awhile before joining EO and pulling Dynamis. I kept the forums around for a few years afterwards and they saw some decent usage. I shut them down due to phpnuke vulnerabilities (got tired of patching / restoring / upgrading). I still have the site registered and host it for the screen shots linked in various places around the web for anyone feeling nostalgic. And there you have it, from Kevorkean's vision of a FFXI PVP LS to the forming of EO: the rise and fall of Eternal Darkness. Edeas Orphans The specifics of Pogo leading to EO being made: My brother (not Mark, Felucca) was talking about weed in a positive manner and Pogo went off on him as if weed had killed a family member of his. Insisted that he stop talking about it and eventually broke his pearl. Krazi, an amateur of the ganja if I'm not mistaken as well as free speech, then quit right after. Miruuk was Krazi's roommate and ultimately followed him. Mark and I were Fel's brothers.. Koga was my guildmaster in UO and since you could have several pearls, lots of people from ED would end up having a pearl to EO and wearing it with varying frequency as a way to be able to stay in touch. Looks like that is where Markus created EO with a few other members such as Jonathan. That was June 22nd, 2004. So I don't know what happened here. I thought there were 2 EO shells also (but it's been a LONG time so correct me if I'm wrong). I think EdeasSeeD might have been the senior shell, or the event shell. I did not come to EO until about Feb 2006. So there's a 18 month gap where I don't know what happened. I know there were Dynamis and Sky events, but I don't know many specifics. Anyways, I actually started off in Synergy (Dukes' LS). Never meshed well with that group. I quit after a few months and Jerric & Duely got me into EO. EO must have been recruiting at the time. Other members such as Shalyn, Sosa, Cynric, Zannefair, and Oldman joined around the same time as me. A few others joined shortly before me like Winterkiss. EO had A LOT of members. I really liked it and everyone was friendly. Right after I joined there was implementation of Manditory Attendance of events. Sometime around April 2006 I witnessed a huge split. Split 1: Imohtep and a HUGE group of followers split off (Bale, Morbid, and Aerya). Apparently there was some underground mutiny going on. A lot of the people involved were sack holders. There were forum discussions and other things, and all I really got out of it was "you guys suck, give us our payout, we can do better without you". I never really understood what the problem was, apparently they thought everyone was a n00b. Oh wait, read an ancient post, apparently they were mad the sackholders didn't tell them the exact bank balance as quickly as they had asked. And what about Bale? he didnt know the balance too and he wasnt leaving EO till now. When Aerya asked to know balance, why dont you all show to members the bank balance? It´s LS money, not SH´s. A w/e I cancelling my account, and move on, I dont need this. Take care of the bank balance well. Imohtep would be happy to know they did. Eventually Tempus calculates the balance, and the gil is put on a different mule to facilitate looking up the balance in the future. Mark posts SS of the gil and Krazi's signed vermy which the bank purchased. Back to them thinking we were n00bs. Markus did have some good punches about it. Yes you died, someone missed a cure. Yes someone got aggro in Sky... Do you believe now that your new LS will be death and aggro free? At the time my Pld happened to be wearing very distinct gold Armor mixed with AF and I happened to have been in a screen shot where I was on the front of Synergy's webpage months later with Kirin in the background. I said "yep, good luck to you guys, you won't see a place like EO again, go ahead and check out that other LS who has me posted there". After that, we went on routine Dyanmis/Sky Runs. Killed Kirin here and there. We even got together a few runs to do some of the RoZ & COP Bahamut fight. THAT was impressive. A lot of ear rings came out of that. Not to mention we had a few Divine Might runs. We would also eventually pickup sea runs. That's kind of how it went for months, Dynamis, Sky, Sea, special events. Was really a good time to be with the LS. There would be a Dynamis were I kept on having connection problems (damn you DSL) and I would later hear about what happened. Split 2: Zannefair and Cynric. So we had this married couple that came to EVERYTHING. At the time, the WHM wasn't very good. I would later learn much more about this after the fact, but apparently Zannefair actually threatened to train mobs on the LS in Dyanmis Xarcboard (the one where I kept disconnecting). This lead to her booting, if ever there was a justified booting in existence, it was that one. Markus was actually a very good guy about the whole thing. Paid out her points and everything. Oldman came on said "how could you do this to my best friend in existence". Tempus would post a damning pick of him complaining about her to him. Rather than Oldman admitting fault in the face of evidence he called Tempus a "haxor" and the entire LS had a good laugh. I do have certain objections about posting private conversations, but not as much as I object to falsely accusing someone of creating faked photos. as i read all these post i have to laugh at them myself, but i must say nice hack on putting my name in some of them confo's… lmao. if yur gonna try to make someone look bad plz hack it right and make sure u have all your lines covered ok.... And here he admits he said that and it was not a hack. First off me and markus and temp ( ?) had that discussion about zann what 3-4 months ago Cynric soon left, started a Killing Ifrit flame war against EO. People actually went to the extent to come to our boards, create accounts and tell us how they felt about it (they were not big fans). I think it was Winterkiss that also left over it, told me in a /tell but didn't tell anyone else why. I left over it a month later. We thought the whole thing was "well she kinda sucks and she hastes herself". Markus and LS leadership kept the Dynamis event quiet and didn't publically bash her, even in the face of a flame war. Later Locke would tell me what happened. A couple of years later I played with Zannefair and Cyrnic. Zannefair leveled BLM to 75 and never nuked, just meleed. She seemed incoherent to put it nicely. I would have come to the realization "oh, this is what they meant by her being terrible". (she actually did a non optimal ok job for me when as a WHM when she was in EO, I must have brought out the non crazy in her at the time. No one else ever said that about her ever). Sosa started a thread about leadership and he wanted to address the issue of why people were leaving. Some of it was a misunderstanding of what happened. Some of it was other reasons. So this is late 2006. I left in October 2006. Membership dwindled and Markus decided to retire as LS Leader. By that time a lot of people on the server had actually been in EO, and the flame war didn't help membership. FFXI in general had tamed down a lot, so there weren't a whole lot of new members playing at that time. Edeas Evolution Some of the remaining members went off and made Edeas Evolution. EE was on FFXI and EO picked up WoW. EE was pretty short lived as we didn't have enough people for Dynamis after two months, and most members retired or moved to WoW, and it just became a small social shell. EO WoW got pretty big, and I believe they were one of the top guilds for some time, but I was only involved for a few months towards the beginning. Much of that should be documented on this board - check the WoW screen shot thread. Back in FFXI, I believe Tibent recreated EO after the Titan merged with Phoenix, but I don't know any more than that. It looks like Edeas Evolution divided up the bank in about May 2007. So that must have been about when everyone focused more on WoW. Also looks like Edeas Evolution kind of stopped and everyone migrated back to Edeas Orphans around that time. Edeas Orphans WoW Edition In Jan 2007, EO picked up WoW and was run by Nikodemos. Markus was an officer in that guild. ***Need Summary Here*** Back to Edeas Orphans FFXI Edition In May 2011, Square Enix would merge the Titan Server into Pheonix. Tibent, now Tibentt, created a new EO social shell after the merger, this was in Nov 2011. The shell was small, and did not use the EO site. It only had around 5 members: Tibentt, Bobhope, Sinha, and a few others. The shell went pretty inactive in about May 2012. In October 2016, Tibentt is still the shell holder and still wears the EO Master pearl in 1 of the 2 LS slots. I was promoted to sack holder and named SH#1 (approved by Tibentt). Requested Summaries: What happened from Jun 2004 to Feb 2006 in EO? If anyone has a better WoW summary, I'll put that up. We have logs of items and drops from various events of Dyanmis & Sky. Would be fun to dig through some of that and say how many items we got across how many members from 2004-2006. We can get an excel plot of items/time and active members vs time in principal if we recorded who attended the events. Would also be nice to get some info on the Jolly Rogers merger in 2005.
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